<div dir="ltr"><div><div><div><div><div><div><div>Hello guys,<br><br></div>Just a little word, a bit off topic, but to let you know that in 2010 i created a new framework based on Grok, jsut after the last sprint.<br></div>As time went by, I dissociated the framework from Grok, then from Zope3 itself, keeping just a few packages from the ZTK.<br></div>The framework called Cromlech was started with Martijn Faassen, using Crom and Grokker, very lightweight packages to replace the Martian/zope.component duo.<br></div>The Framework is very much alive and used in very big sites and a company based in Germany, called Novareto.<br></div>The concepts are very close from Grok and I consider it the successor I always wanted.<br>it has no bound DB, can be used with SQL, ZODB or Solr, all of them at the same time or none at all.</div>It runs on python 3.5 and has most of the functionalities Grok had.<br></div>It's just a little more DIY, because i've always wanted less magic.<br><div><div><br><a href="https://github.com/Cromlech">https://github.com/Cromlech</a><br><div><br><div>If you're interested, I could help you deploy one and maybe get a feeling out of it.<br></div><div>It's a few men projects, but it's a no non-sense dev oriented project, to do the work and not show off.<br><br></div><div>- Souheil Chelfouh<br></div><div><br></div></div></div></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">2017-03-09 10:13 GMT+01:00 Paul Sephton <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:prsephton@gmail.com" target="_blank">prsephton@gmail.com</a>></span>:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><div><div><div>Hi, Chris,<br><br></div>I have to say that I share
your concern about the maintenance of the Zope Toolkit, but with one
caviat- the ZTK is still reasonably actively used by Pyramid as a
foundation.<br><br></div>There certainly is little or no excitement
among Python devs that I can discern for web development in general,
outside of the relatively few folks in the Django camp. And frankly, I
have great trouble working up any sort of enthusiasm for Django myself.Â
Having tasted the component oriented approach to web development, I
find anything else poor faire.<br><br></div>The problem is that Grok is
confusing, especially to newcomers. Morepath does <i>not </i>do a
significantly better job of selling itself than Grok did to start with,
I'm sad to say. PHP devs take one look at it and say "whut???". For
better or for worse, PHP is still the most prevalent (easily the most hated) web dev tool, and
even though I think server side Javascript is a ghastly concept, it
seems to have taken off with a wild abandon I could only have hoped to
see in the Python world.<br><br></div>Ask any two arbitrary Python devs
what Grok is though, and you have around a 1% chance of either of them
knowning what you're talking about. Assuming you hit a jackpot with the
vanishingly fading chance that both have heard of it, their answers
will be wildly varying:Â For example, you and I have completely
different approaches to using Grok.<br><br><div><div>The above being the
case, I don't blame you for getting that "nagging feeling". However, I
don't think it's fair to assume that the ZTK activity is dead just
because we're not in the same room as the ZTK devs:Â a quick look at
ZopeFoundation projects on github show as of this time, ZConfig &
z3c.coverage updated 17 hours ago, zope.container, persistent &
Products.LongRequestLogger updated 21 hours ago, and zc.FileStorage
updated a day ago. That's quite a bit of activity in my book!<br><br></div><div>...and Grok is just a relatively thin layer over ZTK.<br></div><div><br></div><div>Even Zope2 updated only 12 days ago.<br></div><div><br></div><div>In
my opinion, it's sad that Grok is associated closely with Plone, and
that the only time it gets head room is in the context of Plone
development. Plone has huge competition in a shrinking space in the
real world, and I cannot see it lasting for ever.<br><br></div><div>From
my experience, Grok is a big boy able to stand on it's own two feet
without needing Plone as a crutch.  I have built some pretty enormous
systems based on ZTK technology, using little more than Eclipse, PyDev
& Postgres, and the only reason I can maintain it all on my own is
because of the component based approach to scaling the system.<br><br></div><div>Very nice to hear from you again, and cheers!<br></div><div><div><br></div></div></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 10:22 AM, Christopher Lozinski <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:lozinski@freerecruiting.com" target="_blank">lozinski@freerecruiting.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word"> Great to hear from you.  <div><br></div><div>One of my biggest worries is that this whole stack of software is not actively used nor maintained.  </div><div><br></div><div>I am perfectly happy with what I am using, but a little voice in the back of my head is worried.  </div><div><br></div><div>They PyCon web conference in Berlin is coming up . Call for papers deadline in March 15th. I am tempted to submit something, but sadly there is no business model behind anything. </div><div><br></div><div>In the meantime <a href="http://ioscompanies.info" target="_blank">ioscompanies.info</a> is doing great.  </div><div><br></div><div>I hope that all is well with you. </div><div><br></div><div>Warm Regards</div><div>Chris</div><div><br></div><div style="font-size:26px"><br></div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>
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