From michel at digicool.com Mon Oct 23 17:31:10 2000 From: michel at digicool.com (Michel Pelletier) Date: Sun Aug 10 16:40:33 2008 Subject: [Zope-book] test Message-ID: <39F4AE1E.606E8AA7@digicool.com> test From k_hester at bellsouth.net Mon Oct 23 18:44:19 2000 From: k_hester at bellsouth.net (Kathy Hester) Date: Sun Aug 10 16:40:33 2008 Subject: [Zope-book] signed-up Message-ID: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-book/attachments/20001023/73b26c43/attachment.html From dcmorrison at tidewater.net Mon Oct 23 19:12:21 2000 From: dcmorrison at tidewater.net (Dwayne Morrison) Date: Sun Aug 10 16:40:33 2008 Subject: [Zope-book] (no subject) Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20001023191155.00a50990@mail.maine.rr.com> From webmaven at lvcm.com Mon Oct 23 21:02:54 2000 From: webmaven at lvcm.com (Michael Bernstein) Date: Sun Aug 10 16:40:33 2008 Subject: [Zope-book] Ping... Message-ID: <39F4DFBE.9F108854@lvcm.com> From bill.anderson at libc.org Mon Oct 23 21:12:02 2000 From: bill.anderson at libc.org (Bill Anderson) Date: Sun Aug 10 16:40:33 2008 Subject: [Zope-book] Ping Message-ID: <39F4E1E2.481CD574@libc.org> Hello. Here is the ping as requested :) Bill Anderson -- E PLURIBUS LINUX From kathyhes at yahoo.com Tue Oct 24 12:55:47 2000 From: kathyhes at yahoo.com (Kathy Hester) Date: Sun Aug 10 16:40:33 2008 Subject: [Zope-book] chapter4 Message-ID: <20001024165547.1646.qmail@web2206.mail.yahoo.com> Hi all! I am making the guest book in chapter 4. I am getting a syntax error in adEntry.py. Any ideas? Here is my addEntry.py: def addEntry(self, guest_name, comments): """ Create a guest book entry. """ # create a unique doc id id='entry_%d' % len(self.objectIds()) # create the document self.manage_addProduct['OFSP'].manage_addDTMLDocument(id, title="", file=comments) # add a guest_name string property doc=getattr(self, id) doc.manage_addProperty('guest_name', guest_name, 'string') The python check module points to line 6. ===== Kathy Hester to feel powerful often to act powerful sometimes to overpower others seldom to share power whenever possible - unknown __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ From tom.deprez at village.uunet.be Tue Oct 24 14:16:18 2000 From: tom.deprez at village.uunet.be (Tom Deprez) Date: Sun Aug 10 16:40:33 2008 Subject: [Zope-book] Test Message-ID: <003601c03de6$82ab2300$0186a8c0@paladin> Test From webmaven at lvcm.com Wed Oct 25 10:48:40 2000 From: webmaven at lvcm.com (Michael Bernstein) Date: Sun Aug 10 16:40:33 2008 Subject: [Zope-book] We're all here... Message-ID: <39F6F2C8.5121B460@lvcm.com> Now that Tom has signed in, we're all here. I'd like to ask for a PDF version of the book again. I find it a lot easier to read printed materials than on-screen materials. Printing out the HTML pages is not much better, either. Thanks, Michael. P.S. When can we expect to have someone from O'Reilly show up here? From bill.anderson at libc.org Wed Oct 25 10:54:16 2000 From: bill.anderson at libc.org (Bill Anderson) Date: Sun Aug 10 16:40:33 2008 Subject: [Zope-book] We're all here... References: <39F6F2C8.5121B460@lvcm.com> Message-ID: <39F6F418.C7C06D71@libc.org> Michael Bernstein wrote: > > Now that Tom has signed in, we're all here. > > I'd like to ask for a PDF version of the book again. I find > it a lot easier to read printed materials than on-screen > materials. Printing out the HTML pages is not much better, > either. I'll second that request. -- E PLURIBUS LINUX From michel at digicool.com Wed Oct 25 15:56:49 2000 From: michel at digicool.com (Michel Pelletier) Date: Sun Aug 10 16:40:33 2008 Subject: [Zope-book] We're all here... References: <39F6F2C8.5121B460@lvcm.com> Message-ID: <39F73B01.62B3C0@digicool.com> Michael Bernstein wrote: > > Now that Tom has signed in, we're all here. Great! > I'd like to ask for a PDF version of the book again. I find > it a lot easier to read printed materials than on-screen > materials. Printing out the HTML pages is not much better, > either. Well, the thing is we would need to write the PDF outputter; no small task. Are there tools to convert HTML to PDF? On another note, O'Reilly turns our DocBook into PDF at some point in their process, so you could ask laura for a copy when she gets ahold of you. > > Thanks, > > Michael. > > P.S. When can we expect to have someone from O'Reilly show > up here? This list is sort of casual; for your own internal communications. O'Reilly will contact each of you individually with details. I'm just as new at this as you folks, so I'm not really sure myself. -Michel From michel at digicool.com Wed Oct 25 15:58:24 2000 From: michel at digicool.com (Michel Pelletier) Date: Sun Aug 10 16:40:33 2008 Subject: [Zope-book] chapter4 References: <20001024165547.1646.qmail@web2206.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <39F73B60.70EA0768@digicool.com> Kathy Hester wrote: > > Hi all! > > I am making the guest book in chapter 4. I am getting > a syntax error in adEntry.py. > > Any ideas? Kathy, The online material is at least 2 weeks old. This friday, we'll be making a new 'beta' upload that fixes this problem and many, many others (and screenshots!). Stay tuned (sorry for the delay). -Michel From michel at digicool.com Fri Oct 27 18:33:07 2000 From: michel at digicool.com (Michel Pelletier) Date: Sun Aug 10 16:40:33 2008 Subject: [Zope-book] new material online Message-ID: <39FA02A3.A4F8ADBF@digicool.com> Ok, all the new material is online, including the new outline and most of the new screenshots. Chapter 1 and 2 screenshots apear to be messed up somehow, at least I can't get them to work; it looks like the old screenshots overwrote the new ones. We'll unscrew that soon. Otherwise all the text is updated and most of the chapters have screenshots. Check it out, let us know what you think. -Michel From tom.deprez at village.uunet.be Sat Oct 28 05:54:01 2000 From: tom.deprez at village.uunet.be (Tom Deprez) Date: Sun Aug 10 16:40:33 2008 Subject: [Zope-book] new material online References: <39FA02A3.A4F8ADBF@digicool.com> Message-ID: <002301c040c5$01afb040$0186a8c0@paladin> mmm, Chapter 2 looks fine here and Chapter 1 doesn't has screenshots, as far as I know. Tom. ----- Original Message ----- From: Michel Pelletier To: Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2000 12:33 AM Subject: [Zope-book] new material online > Ok, all the new material is online, including the new outline and most > of the new screenshots. Chapter 1 and 2 screenshots apear to be messed > up somehow, at least I can't get them to work; it looks like the old > screenshots overwrote the new ones. We'll unscrew that soon. Otherwise > all the text is updated and most of the chapters have screenshots. > > Check it out, let us know what you think. > > -Michel > > _______________________________________________ > Zope-book maillist - Zope-book@zope.org > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-book > > From tom.deprez at village.uunet.be Sat Oct 28 06:04:14 2000 From: tom.deprez at village.uunet.be (Tom Deprez) Date: Sun Aug 10 16:40:33 2008 Subject: [Zope-book] new material online References: <39FA02A3.A4F8ADBF@digicool.com> <002301c040c5$01afb040$0186a8c0@paladin> Message-ID: <003701c040c6$6ee0c360$0186a8c0@paladin> However, I see some duck-pictures appearing on the higher chapters.... eg. fig 9.1 isn't a correct one, Relational database picture with ZCatalog? Or did you mean pictures in Part I and Part II are screwed up? Tom. ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Deprez To: ; Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2000 11:54 AM Subject: Re: [Zope-book] new material online > mmm, > > Chapter 2 looks fine here and Chapter 1 doesn't has screenshots, as far as I > know. > > Tom. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Michel Pelletier > To: > Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2000 12:33 AM > Subject: [Zope-book] new material online > > > > Ok, all the new material is online, including the new outline and most > > of the new screenshots. Chapter 1 and 2 screenshots apear to be messed > > up somehow, at least I can't get them to work; it looks like the old > > screenshots overwrote the new ones. We'll unscrew that soon. Otherwise > > all the text is updated and most of the chapters have screenshots. > > > > Check it out, let us know what you think. > > > > -Michel > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Zope-book maillist - Zope-book@zope.org > > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-book > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Zope-book maillist - Zope-book@zope.org > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-book > > From webmaven at lvcm.com Sat Oct 28 19:23:38 2000 From: webmaven at lvcm.com (Michael Bernstein) Date: Sun Aug 10 16:40:33 2008 Subject: [Zope-book] We're all here... References: <39F6F2C8.5121B460@lvcm.com> <39F73B01.62B3C0@digicool.com> Message-ID: <39FB5FFA.2DBB4D13@lvcm.com> Michel Pelletier wrote: > > Michael Bernstein wrote: > > > > I'd like to ask for a PDF version of the book again. I find > > it a lot easier to read printed materials than on-screen > > materials. Printing out the HTML pages is not much better, > > either. > > Well, the thing is we would need to write the PDF outputter; no small > task. Are there tools to convert HTML to PDF? There is this Zope product: http://www.zope.org/Members/gaaros/ZpdfDocument Does that help? Michael Bernstein. From michel at digicool.com Mon Oct 30 20:32:35 2000 From: michel at digicool.com (Michel Pelletier) Date: Sun Aug 10 16:40:34 2008 Subject: [Zope-book] Zope Book Beta Message-ID: <39FE2133.F00ED435@digicool.com> Amos and I are gibbering like madmen with excitement to announce the Zope Book Beta. This is the complete, technical draft of the book with all screenshots (but minus illustrations, those are on there way!). Some other things like a colophon and information about the authors is missing. The beta includes all completed chapters, the API reference, and the DTML reference. We've received over a hundred comments, corrections, and ideas from you the community and it has made a much better book. This is the one to print out and give to your friends as christmas gifts, folks, so get crackin and start reading at http://www.zope.org/Members/michel/ZB/. Enjoy, -Michel From webmaven at lvcm.com Tue Oct 31 01:02:23 2000 From: webmaven at lvcm.com (Michael Bernstein) Date: Sun Aug 10 16:40:34 2008 Subject: [Zope-book] Other Competitors? Message-ID: <39FE606F.2D2D8025@lvcm.com> I was wondering if it would be appropriate to mention any aditional competitors (open- or closed-source)to Zope in the 'Zope Alternatives' section of Chapter 1, and stress the similarities and differences between them and Zope. Additional alternatives that come to mind are the ArsDigita Community System, Midgard, and Userland Frontier (Frontier had it's own O'Reilly book, now out of print). For an example, you might in particular take a look at the 'Which Toolkit?' section of the following chapter in Philip Greenspun's new online book 'Building Online Communities': http://www.arsdigita.com/books/building-community/infrastructure Anyway, a more substantive contrast drawn between Zope and alternative solutions would benefit casual readers of the book (in-bookstore browsers) who are trying to evaluate whether Zope is an appropriate solution for them. HTH, Michael Bernstein. P.S. I hope this suggestion isn't too far outside the scope of our responsibility as technical reviewers ;-) From ws at gmd.de Tue Oct 31 04:58:11 2000 From: ws at gmd.de (Wolfgang Strobl) Date: Sun Aug 10 16:40:34 2008 Subject: [Zope-book] Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta In-Reply-To: <39FE2133.F00ED435@digicool.com> Message-ID: <39FEA5C3.30680.5483DF1@localhost> On 30 Oct 2000, 17:32 Michel Pelletier wrote: > > Amos and I are gibbering like madmen with excitement to announce the > Zope Book Beta. [...] Great! For my own use, I'Ve just created a fully indexed MS-Windows HTMHelp-Version, see http://www.zope.org/Members/strobl, that I want to share with others doing Zope work on that platform. -- o ( Wolfgang.Strobl@gmd.de (+49 2241) 14-2394 /\ * GMD mbH #include _`\ `_<=== Schloss Birlinghoven, __(_)/_(_)___.-._ 53754 Sankt Augustin, Germany ________________ From p at state-of-mind.de Tue Oct 31 05:25:12 2000 From: p at state-of-mind.de (Patrick Koetter) Date: Sun Aug 10 16:40:34 2008 Subject: [Zope-book] AW: [Zope] Zope Book Beta In-Reply-To: <39FEA5C3.30680.5483DF1@localhost> Message-ID: Thanks! Pretty neat thing :-) I like the ducks: a-hi-ru. "Kore wa desu? Ahiru desu." It must have been something like that... p@ > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: zope-admin@zope.org [mailto:zope-admin@zope.org]Im Auftrag von > Wolfgang Strobl > Gesendet: Dienstag, 31. Oktober 2000 10:58 > An: zope@zope.org; zope-book@zope.org > Betreff: Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta > > > On 30 Oct 2000, 17:32 Michel Pelletier wrote: > > > > > Amos and I are gibbering like madmen with excitement to announce the > > Zope Book Beta. [...] > > Great! > > For my own use, I'Ve just created a fully indexed MS-Windows > HTMHelp-Version, see http://www.zope.org/Members/strobl, that I > want to share with others doing Zope work on that platform. > > > > -- > o ( Wolfgang.Strobl@gmd.de (+49 2241) 14-2394 > /\ * GMD mbH #include > _`\ `_<=== Schloss Birlinghoven, > __(_)/_(_)___.-._ 53754 Sankt Augustin, Germany ________________ > > _______________________________________________ > Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope > ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** > (Related lists - > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) > From chrisw at nipltd.com Tue Oct 31 06:49:04 2000 From: chrisw at nipltd.com (Chris Withers) Date: Sun Aug 10 16:40:34 2008 Subject: [Zope-book] Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta References: <39FE2133.F00ED435@digicool.com> Message-ID: <39FEB1B0.46B76306@nipltd.com> There a PDF of it anywhere? cheers, Chris Michel Pelletier wrote: > > Amos and I are gibbering like madmen with excitement to announce the > Zope Book Beta. This is the complete, technical draft of the book with > all screenshots (but minus illustrations, those are on there way!). > Some other things like a colophon and information about the authors is > missing. The beta includes all completed chapters, the API reference, > and the DTML reference. We've received over a hundred comments, > corrections, and ideas from you the community and it has made a much > better book. This is the one to print out and give to your friends as > christmas gifts, folks, so get crackin and start reading at > http://www.zope.org/Members/michel/ZB/. > > Enjoy, > > -Michel > > _______________________________________________ > Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope > ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** > (Related lists - > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) From phil.harris at zope.co.uk Tue Oct 31 07:30:00 2000 From: phil.harris at zope.co.uk (Phil Harris) Date: Sun Aug 10 16:40:34 2008 Subject: [Zope-book] Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta References: <39FE2133.F00ED435@digicool.com> <39FEB1B0.46B76306@nipltd.com> Message-ID: <057301c04336$4d5d29a0$5c773fc1@media1> Give me a few hours and I'll be knocking out the eBook and PDF versions. By the end of the day. Phil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Withers" To: Cc: ; Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2000 11:49 AM Subject: Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta > There a PDF of it anywhere? > > cheers, > > Chris > > Michel Pelletier wrote: > > > > Amos and I are gibbering like madmen with excitement to announce the > > Zope Book Beta. This is the complete, technical draft of the book with > > all screenshots (but minus illustrations, those are on there way!). > > Some other things like a colophon and information about the authors is > > missing. The beta includes all completed chapters, the API reference, > > and the DTML reference. We've received over a hundred comments, > > corrections, and ideas from you the community and it has made a much > > better book. This is the one to print out and give to your friends as > > christmas gifts, folks, so get crackin and start reading at > > http://www.zope.org/Members/michel/ZB/. > > > > Enjoy, > > > > -Michel > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org > > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope > > ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** > > (Related lists - > > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce > > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) > > _______________________________________________ > Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope > ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** > (Related lists - > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) From webmaven at lvcm.com Tue Oct 31 10:49:59 2000 From: webmaven at lvcm.com (Michael Bernstein) Date: Sun Aug 10 16:40:34 2008 Subject: [Zope-book] Other Competitors? References: <39FE606F.2D2D8025@lvcm.com> Message-ID: <39FEEA27.2905DF85@lvcm.com> Michael Bernstein wrote: > > I was wondering if it would be appropriate to mention any > aditional competitors (open- or closed-source)to Zope in the > 'Zope Alternatives' section of Chapter 1, and stress the > similarities and differences between them and Zope. A good example of how O'Reilly has done this in the past can be found in the beginning of the Bash and Korn books, where the other shells are compared in the context of the history of Unix shells. So perhaps some historical context regarding the transition from CGI approaches to middleware server side scripting, to Zope's integrated approach incorporating an OODBMS and TTW management is called for. Just a suggestion. Cheers, Michael Bernstein. From kthangavelu at earthlink.net Tue Oct 31 07:52:51 2000 From: kthangavelu at earthlink.net (Ender) Date: Sun Aug 10 16:40:34 2008 Subject: [Zope-book] Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta References: <39FE2133.F00ED435@digicool.com> <39FEB1B0.46B76306@nipltd.com> <057301c04336$4d5d29a0$5c773fc1@media1> Message-ID: <39FEC0A3.7DF866A2@earthlink.net> Phil Harris wrote: > > Give me a few hours and I'll be knocking out the eBook and PDF versions. > > By the end of the day. > > Phil Hi Phil, how do you do that? for the pdf are you dumping stuff into reportlab? Kapil > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chris Withers" > To: > Cc: ; > Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2000 11:49 AM > Subject: Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta > > > There a PDF of it anywhere? > > > > cheers, > > > > Chris > > > > Michel Pelletier wrote: > > > > > > Amos and I are gibbering like madmen with excitement to announce the > > > Zope Book Beta. This is the complete, technical draft of the book with > > > all screenshots (but minus illustrations, those are on there way!). > > > Some other things like a colophon and information about the authors is > > > missing. The beta includes all completed chapters, the API reference, > > > and the DTML reference. We've received over a hundred comments, > > > corrections, and ideas from you the community and it has made a much > > > better book. This is the one to print out and give to your friends as > > > christmas gifts, folks, so get crackin and start reading at > > > http://www.zope.org/Members/michel/ZB/. > > > > > > Enjoy, > > > > > > -Michel > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org > > > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope > > > ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** > > > (Related lists - > > > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce > > > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org > > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope > > ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** > > (Related lists - > > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce > > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) > > _______________________________________________ > Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope > ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** > (Related lists - > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) From phil.harris at zope.co.uk Sun Oct 29 12:16:22 2000 From: phil.harris at zope.co.uk (Phil Harris) Date: Sun Aug 10 16:40:34 2008 Subject: [Zope-book] Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta References: <39FE2133.F00ED435@digicool.com> <39FEB1B0.46B76306@nipltd.com> <057301c04336$4d5d29a0$5c773fc1@media1> <39FEC0A3.7DF866A2@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <014e01c041cb$f8c1c970$0202a8c0@typhoon> Nah, I use the offical stuff , Adobe Distiller. For the eBook stuff I use a Microsoft Word Add-in, available from www.pocketpc.com (really microsoft under a pseudonym) hth Phil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ender" To: "Phil Harris" Cc: ; ; Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2000 12:52 PM Subject: Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta | Phil Harris wrote: | > | > Give me a few hours and I'll be knocking out the eBook and PDF versions. | > | > By the end of the day. | > | > Phil | | Hi Phil, | | how do you do that? for the pdf are you dumping stuff into reportlab? | | Kapil | | | > ----- Original Message ----- | > From: "Chris Withers" | > To: | > Cc: ; | > Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2000 11:49 AM | > Subject: Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta | > | > > There a PDF of it anywhere? | > > | > > cheers, | > > | > > Chris | > > | > > Michel Pelletier wrote: | > > > | > > > Amos and I are gibbering like madmen with excitement to announce the | > > > Zope Book Beta. This is the complete, technical draft of the book with | > > > all screenshots (but minus illustrations, those are on there way!). | > > > Some other things like a colophon and information about the authors is | > > > missing. The beta includes all completed chapters, the API reference, | > > > and the DTML reference. We've received over a hundred comments, | > > > corrections, and ideas from you the community and it has made a much | > > > better book. This is the one to print out and give to your friends as | > > > christmas gifts, folks, so get crackin and start reading at | > > > http://www.zope.org/Members/michel/ZB/. | > > > | > > > Enjoy, | > > > | > > > -Michel | > > > | > > > _______________________________________________ | > > > Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org | > > > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope | > > > ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** | > > > (Related lists - | > > > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce | > > > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) | > > | > > _______________________________________________ | > > Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org | > > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope | > > ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** | > > (Related lists - | > > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce | > > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) | > | > _______________________________________________ | > Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org | > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope | > ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** | > (Related lists - | > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce | > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) From amos at digicool.com Tue Oct 31 13:39:58 2000 From: amos at digicool.com (Amos Latteier) Date: Sun Aug 10 16:40:34 2008 Subject: [Zope-book] Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta References: <39FEA5C3.30680.5483DF1@localhost> Message-ID: <39FF11FE.41B79D22@digicool.com> Wolfgang Strobl wrote: > > On 30 Oct 2000, 17:32 Michel Pelletier wrote: > > > > > Amos and I are gibbering like madmen with excitement to announce the > > Zope Book Beta. [...] > > Great! > > For my own use, I'Ve just created a fully indexed MS-Windows > HTMHelp-Version, see http://www.zope.org/Members/strobl, that I > want to share with others doing Zope work on that platform. I believe that O'Reilly doesn't want the book redistributed before it is printed. I'll recheck with them. Take a look at the copyright stuff info on each page. Luckily the book will soon be under an open content license, and then you'll be free to do what ever you wish. Thanks for taking a look at the book! -Amos -- Amos Latteier mailto:amos@digicool.com Digital Creations http://www.digicool.com From ws at mystrobl.de Tue Oct 31 14:28:50 2000 From: ws at mystrobl.de (Wolfgang Strobl) Date: Sun Aug 10 16:40:34 2008 Subject: [Zope-book] Re: [Zope] Re: [Zope-book] Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta In-Reply-To: <39FF11FE.41B79D22@digicool.com> Message-ID: <39FF2B82.7500.28F81960@localhost> On 31 Oct 2000, at 10:39, Amos Latteier wrote: > I believe that O'Reilly doesn't want the book redistributed before it is > printed. It's gone. > I'll recheck with them. No need to. But what is the meaning of This is the one to print out and give to your friends as christmas gifts, folks, so get crackin and start reading at." in the announcement? >Take a look at the copyright stuff info > on each page. didn't restribute it, I uploaded the same content in a different format to the very same site I got it from: www.zope.org. -- Wolfgang Strobl From amos at digicool.com Tue Oct 31 14:44:16 2000 From: amos at digicool.com (Amos Latteier) Date: Sun Aug 10 16:40:34 2008 Subject: [Zope-book] Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta References: <39FE2133.F00ED435@digicool.com> <39FEB1B0.46B76306@nipltd.com> Message-ID: <39FF2110.AF8151CC@digicool.com> Chris Withers wrote: > > There a PDF of it anywhere? Not yet. I think that O'Reilly doesn't want us to produce any more public versions of the book until it is published. I'm double checking with them right now. Take a look at the copyright verbage on each book page to see what I'm talking about. As soon as the book is published it will go under an open content license and we'll make PDF, and probably other formats available. At that time you'll also be able to convert the book to whatever formats you want and redistribute it as you wish. Thanks for your patience. -Amos -- Amos Latteier mailto:amos@digicool.com Digital Creations http://www.digicool.com From michel at digicool.com Tue Oct 31 15:54:49 2000 From: michel at digicool.com (Michel Pelletier) Date: Sun Aug 10 16:40:34 2008 Subject: [Zope-book] Re: [Zope] Re: [Zope-book] Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta References: <39FF2B82.7500.28F81960@localhost> Message-ID: <39FF3199.2EAC7DB2@digicool.com> Wolfgang Strobl wrote: > > On 31 Oct 2000, at 10:39, Amos Latteier wrote: > > > I believe that O'Reilly doesn't want the book redistributed before it is > > printed. > > It's gone. > > > I'll recheck with them. > > No need to. > > But what is the meaning of This is the one to print out and give to > your friends as christmas gifts, folks, so get crackin and start > reading at." in the announcement? That was a joke. Sorry. -Michel From michel at digicool.com Tue Oct 31 15:57:51 2000 From: michel at digicool.com (Michel Pelletier) Date: Sun Aug 10 16:40:34 2008 Subject: [Zope-book] Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta References: <39FE2133.F00ED435@digicool.com> <39FEB1B0.46B76306@nipltd.com> Message-ID: <39FF324F.2A90AFB2@digicool.com> Chris Withers wrote: > > There a PDF of it anywhere? No, we won't produce one until the book goes to an open content license when it hits the shelf. -Michel > > cheers, > > Chris > > Michel Pelletier wrote: > > > > Amos and I are gibbering like madmen with excitement to announce the > > Zope Book Beta. This is the complete, technical draft of the book with > > all screenshots (but minus illustrations, those are on there way!). > > Some other things like a colophon and information about the authors is > > missing. The beta includes all completed chapters, the API reference, > > and the DTML reference. We've received over a hundred comments, > > corrections, and ideas from you the community and it has made a much > > better book. This is the one to print out and give to your friends as > > christmas gifts, folks, so get crackin and start reading at > > http://www.zope.org/Members/michel/ZB/. > > > > Enjoy, > > > > -Michel > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org > > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope > > ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** > > (Related lists - > > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce > > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) From jasonic at nomadicsltd.com Tue Oct 31 16:15:59 2000 From: jasonic at nomadicsltd.com (Jason Cunliffe) Date: Sun Aug 10 16:40:34 2008 Subject: [Zope-book] Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta References: <39FE2133.F00ED435@digicool.com> <39FEB1B0.46B76306@nipltd.com> <39FF2110.AF8151CC@digicool.com> Message-ID: <026501c0437f$c4c18ba0$c3090740@megapathdsl.net> Hello Congratulations on getting the book to this stage!! It is very readable and I hope it is well promoted, and well received. One obvious presentation improvement I suggest is that you make ALL zope code references in the same typographic style. For example throughout most of the text you sensibly have DTML and Python examples in courier or equivalent. But in the Appendices, for example http://www.zope.org/Members/michel/ZB/AppendixA.html under sections marked 'Attributes', there is not a clear consistent distinction: encode=string MIME Content-Transfer-Encoding header, defaults to base64. Valid encoding options include base64, quoted-printable, uuencode, x-uuencode, uue, x-uue, and 7bit. If the encode attribute is set to 7bit no encoding is done on the block and the data is assumed to be in a valid MIME format. "encode=string" should display in courier also like all examples. And if possible put one extra line space after each Attribute description before the next entry. Thought this takes up a little more space, it is white space well used adn really helps one to find and absorb this crucial content better. An editorial suggestion I would make is that in the Appendices, MORE examples would be BETTER and clearer definitions and examples of the attributes arguments would really help too. Even a single one or two-line example after each 'Attributes section would be a godsend. I imagine there are lots of juicy examples in the archives. For example check sendmail, mailhost ="mailhostnamegoeshere" Also there is no mention about the sendmail quirkiness of formatting, needing space after the subject: line This is a FAQ and surely belongs in the appendix of the only Zope book. Are there others? In general for the Appendices, please check that explicitly it is clear and consistent when and if anything is returned, and when and how arguments are needed. You all know, and take all this for granted no doubt, but others truly don't. The API aspect is one that holds so many people back and so many questions about real-world use. Copious well placed examples go a long way. I know how hard it is use to make a book and how many endless fiddly time-consuming tasks there are. But it really is worth getting this right. I work for 10 years in the design and production side of book publishing. Ditto the index. I hope you push to make sure your editorial team at OReilly are really behind you on helping to produce a great index and will sweat all the details and typographic minutiae which do matter so much when you hold the final result. A classic example is 'Lingo in a Nutshell' [ORA] which has very detailed examples and excellent tables and appendices, but was marred by a cheap fast shallow index. It was author Bruce Epstein's painful learning curve. It is still the definitive LINGO book, but widely criticized for lack of serious index. Bruce later added stuff online and vowed to fix it in the next edition. As I recall from his post to the Direct-L mailing list, he said that he had not been personally very involved in the index, and as an exhausted and tired new author, he had not reckoned on what could go wrong, nor how important the index is to a static printed paper book. Very different from the dynamic online world where a few searches on google or wherever will get a handy reference, backed up by a post to xyz-mailinglist. Best wishes - Jason ________________________________________________________________ Jason CUNLIFFE = NOMADICS['Interactive Art and Technology'].DesignDirector From ws at mystrobl.de Tue Oct 31 17:08:00 2000 From: ws at mystrobl.de (Wolfgang Strobl) Date: Sun Aug 10 16:40:34 2008 Subject: [Zope-book] Re: [Zope] Re: [Zope-book] Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta In-Reply-To: <39FF3199.2EAC7DB2@digicool.com> Message-ID: <39FF50D0.5314.2989D443@localhost> On 31 Oct 2000, at 12:54, Michel Pelletier wrote: > That was a joke. Sorry. Uh, oh. Well, my thought was as follows: people are already annoucing making PDF versions, which are a much greater potential harm to to the number of sales of a printed book.With a good pdf file, I can get to my local prinshop and get a perfect bounded book back within half an hour. On the other hand, a MS HTML help file is of little use other than having a compact, searchable file which fits well into a development environment on Windows. Frankly, I can't see how these could do any harm to selling your book. To the contrary; I tend to beleive that having a properly indexed and tightly integrated online format might even might help selling the book. For example; I have HTML help versions _and_ printed copies of the - outdated - Zope docs, and one of each from the actual howto-collection, and I'm using them both. -- Wolfgang Strobl From bill at noreboots.com Tue Oct 31 17:38:50 2000 From: bill at noreboots.com (Bill Anderson) Date: Sun Aug 10 16:40:34 2008 Subject: [Zope-book] Chapter 7: Advanced DTML --Comments Message-ID: <39FF49FA.6B704405@noreboots.com> The book looks good so far, good job. I do have some comments on this page though. I've broken them up into sections, bear with me. :) dtml-[try|except] ================= AIUI, you can't do computation or logic in . Can someone verify this is the case? If it is, it should be noted. This was the first use I really had for it, and it suprisingly failed me. It would not suprise me if others felt the same way. Somehting saying 'you can't do this', or providing an alertanive means of dong it would have saved me days of effort. For example, I have a: Show the foo object I tried this with 2.2.1, but not yet with 2.2.2. (or maybe this should be fixed before the book comes out ;) ) dtml-comment tag ================ IMO, it should be noted that incorrect dtml will still throw an error inside a comment block. For example: Will still return an error when trying to click change. dtml-sendmail tag ================= It should be noted that you need no whitespace before the headers (To:, Subject:, etc), and that including whitespace will cause it to fail. Unless this has been changed in 2.2.2, of course. My fingers have learned that lesson, so I haven't tested it. :) For dtml-raise, perhaps a reference (at minimum) to a list of error codes that can be returned (such as 404 and friends), or (even better) an appendix which lists them would be a very useful addition. Speaking of appendices, how about an appendix with the format strings for DateTime, as can be found at http://www.zope.org/Members/AlexR/CustomDateFormats DateTime objects are appearing to be quite common occurrences, and IMO, should be dealt with a bit more in the book. 'Simple' things such as displaying times in different formats, and comparing two dates to each other would be quite useful to have. An appendix with these, combined with an example would be wonderful, IMO. Perhaps a good example would be comparing a user's last login time with the dates of news items to see the news added since they last logged in. Or, an example of showing the last 7 day's worth of new news items. -- E PLURIBUS LINUX From phil.harris at zope.co.uk Sun Oct 29 12:50:41 2000 From: phil.harris at zope.co.uk (Phil Harris) Date: Sun Aug 10 16:40:34 2008 Subject: [Zope-book] Re: [Zope] Re: [Zope-book] Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta References: <39FF50D0.5314.2989D443@localhost> Message-ID: <003101c041d0$c2da66f0$0202a8c0@typhoon> Hi all, If your talking about me with the PDF and eBook, then if it's a problem I won't redistribute it. It's actually sitting on my machine waiting to go, but I'll hold if need be. Let me know either way. hth Phil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wolfgang Strobl" To: ; "Amos Latteier" ; ; Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2000 10:08 PM Subject: Re: [Zope] Re: [Zope-book] Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta | On 31 Oct 2000, at 12:54, Michel Pelletier wrote: | | > That was a joke. Sorry. | | Uh, oh. Well, my thought was as follows: people are already | annoucing making PDF versions, which are a much greater | potential harm to to the number of sales of a printed book.With a | good pdf file, I can get to my local prinshop and get a perfect | bounded book back within half an hour. | | On the other hand, a MS HTML help file is of little use other than | having a compact, searchable file which fits well into a | development environment on Windows. Frankly, I can't see how | these could do any harm to selling your book. To the contrary; I | tend to beleive that having a properly indexed and tightly | integrated online format might even might help selling the book. | | For example; I have HTML help versions _and_ printed copies of | the - outdated - Zope docs, and one of each from the actual | howto-collection, and I'm using them both. | | -- | Wolfgang Strobl | | _______________________________________________ | Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org | http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope | ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** | (Related lists - | http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce | http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) From michel at digicool.com Tue Oct 31 19:09:26 2000 From: michel at digicool.com (Michel Pelletier) Date: Sun Aug 10 16:40:34 2008 Subject: [Zope-book] Chapter 7: Advanced DTML --Comments References: <39FF49FA.6B704405@noreboots.com> Message-ID: <39FF5F36.C8BFDC5@digicool.com> Bill Anderson wrote: > > The book looks good so far, good job. > > I do have some comments on this page though. I've broken them up into > sections, bear with me. :) > > dtml-[try|except] > ================= > AIUI, you can't do computation or logic in . Can someone > verify this is the case? If it is, it should be noted. This was the > first use I really had for it, and it suprisingly failed me. It would > not suprise me if others felt the same way. Somehting saying 'you can't > do this', or providing an alertanive means of dong it would have saved > me days of effort. > > For example, I have a: > > > Show the foo object > > > > > I tried this with 2.2.1, but not yet with 2.2.2. (or maybe this should > be fixed before the book comes out ;) ) Are you sure? Maybe I'm not sure what you're saying, do you mean some_function_that_creates_the_foo_object never gets called even if an error is raised in the try block? > dtml-comment tag > ================ > IMO, it should be noted that incorrect dtml will still throw an error > inside a comment block. For example: > > > > > > > > Will still return an error when trying to click change. Good idea, I'll do that. > dtml-sendmail tag > ================= > It should be noted that you need no whitespace before the headers (To:, > Subject:, etc), and that including whitespace will cause it to fail. > Unless this has been changed in 2.2.2, of course. My fingers have > learned that lesson, so I haven't tested it. :) > > For dtml-raise, perhaps a reference (at minimum) to a list of error > codes that can be returned (such as 404 and friends), or (even better) > an appendix which lists them would be a very useful addition. > > Speaking of appendices, how about an appendix with the format strings > for DateTime, as can be found at > http://www.zope.org/Members/AlexR/CustomDateFormats > > DateTime objects are appearing to be quite common occurrences, and IMO, > should be dealt with a bit more in the book. 'Simple' things such as > displaying times in different formats, and comparing two dates to each > other would be quite useful to have. An appendix with these, combined > with an example would be wonderful, IMO. Isn't that allready what's in Appendix B or are we missing something? > Perhaps a good example would be comparing a user's last login time with > the dates of news items to see the news added since they last logged in. > Or, an example of showing the last 7 day's worth of new news items. This is kinda tricky, I don't think the feature of storing last login time comes standard with Zope but is some kind of Membershipism. -Michel From bill at noreboots.com Tue Oct 31 20:44:30 2000 From: bill at noreboots.com (Bill Anderson) Date: Sun Aug 10 16:40:34 2008 Subject: [Zope-book] Chapter 7: Advanced DTML --Comments References: <39FF49FA.6B704405@noreboots.com> <39FF5F36.C8BFDC5@digicool.com> Message-ID: <39FF757E.594C8496@noreboots.com> Michel Pelletier wrote: ... > > dtml-[try|except] > > ================= > > AIUI, you can't do computation or logic in . Can someone > > verify this is the case? If it is, it should be noted. This was the > > first use I really had for it, and it suprisingly failed me. It would > > not suprise me if others felt the same way. Somehting saying 'you can't > > do this', or providing an alertanive means of dong it would have saved > > me days of effort. > > > > For example, I have a: > > > > > > Show the foo object > > > > > > > > > > I tried this with 2.2.1, but not yet with 2.2.2. (or maybe this should > > be fixed before the book comes out ;) ) > > Are you sure? Maybe I'm not sure what you're saying, do you mean > some_function_that_creates_the_foo_object never gets called even if an > error is raised in the try block? Just tried it in 2.2.2. Here is how to repeat: (all in the same folder) o make a python (or DTML I suppose) method called makeFoo, it creates a folder called 'foo' o make a dtml method called testFoo it looks like this: ===== ===== makeFoo is not called. makeFoo works when called manually. When I discovered this, I was building a site which used an nstance of a given object each day. If the object was nat created, the site was in trouble. OS I thought I would put a try/except clause to test for the existence, or create it if the cronjob failed. IMO, this is a bug. But I realize there may be transaction issues... IIRC, the situation gets worse if you try something like: ... Try a thing Do something Do other thing> ... > > dtml-sendmail tag > > ================= > > It should be noted that you need no whitespace before the headers (To:, > > Subject:, etc), and that including whitespace will cause it to fail. > > Unless this has been changed in 2.2.2, of course. My fingers have > > learned that lesson, so I haven't tested it. :) > > > > For dtml-raise, perhaps a reference (at minimum) to a list of error > > codes that can be returned (such as 404 and friends), or (even better) > > an appendix which lists them would be a very useful addition. > > > > Speaking of appendices, how about an appendix with the format strings > > for DateTime, as can be found at > > http://www.zope.org/Members/AlexR/CustomDateFormats > > > > DateTime objects are appearing to be quite common occurrences, and IMO, > > should be dealt with a bit more in the book. 'Simple' things such as > > displaying times in different formats, and comparing two dates to each > > other would be quite useful to have. An appendix with these, combined > > with an example would be wonderful, IMO. > > Isn't that allready what's in Appendix B or are we missing something? I didn't see it, I'l look again. Nope. You have the methods of DateTime, which I agree is appropriate there. I was thinking more along the lines of: ============== %a An abbreviation for the day of the week. %A The full name for the day of the week. %b An abbreviation for the month name. %B The full name of the month. %c A string representing the complete date and time; on my computer it's in the form: 10/22/99 19:03:23 %d The day of the month, formatted with two digits. %H The hour (on a 24-hour clock), formatted with two digits. %I The hour (on a 12-hour clock), formatted with two digits. %j The count of days in the year, formatted with three digits (from 001 to 366). =============== And an example of comparing an object with another wrt dates, such as a 'new news within the last 7 days' display. > > Perhaps a good example would be comparing a user's last login time with > > the dates of news items to see the news added since they last logged in. > > Or, an example of showing the last 7 day's worth of new news items. > > This is kinda tricky, I don't think the feature of storing last login > time comes standard with Zope but is some kind of Membershipism. One word: Cookies. I imagine you would see it most often as a cookie storage thing, as far as to newcomers. Seems many sites are done with cookies, and this is something that seems to be considered a standard thing to do (from what I hear from clients). It has been on the list of the top five things people ask me about for quite some time when asking about zope. Cookies are talked abou tin the dtml-if tag section, so I don't think it would be out of place to reference cookies in this case eitehr. Of course, there is always the second example example. That of showing the last X days worth of news items. :) I believe the ease with which this can be done in Zope is something we should demonstrate in the book. It seems to be a common desire, and showing how to do things many sites want is a good thing to do, especially since it is relatively painless and easy in Zope. I would post the code, but I believe it is still in the PTKDemo. ...And, I am sure you know how to do it anyway. ;^)= -- E PLURIBUS LINUX From jeff.hoffman at goingv.com Tue Oct 31 21:50:01 2000 From: jeff.hoffman at goingv.com (Jeff Hoffman) Date: Sun Aug 10 16:40:34 2008 Subject: [Zope-book] Re: [Zope] Re: [Zope-book] Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta In-Reply-To: <39FF50D0.5314.2989D443@localhost> Message-ID: On Tue, 31 Oct 2000, Wolfgang Strobl wrote: > On 31 Oct 2000, at 12:54, Michel Pelletier wrote: > > > That was a joke. Sorry. > > Uh, oh. Well, my thought was as follows: people are already > annoucing making PDF versions, which are a much greater > potential harm to to the number of sales of a printed book.With a > good pdf file, I can get to my local prinshop and get a perfect > bounded book back within half an hour. > > On the other hand, a MS HTML help file is of little use other than > having a compact, searchable file which fits well into a > development environment on Windows. Frankly, I can't see how > these could do any harm to selling your book. To the contrary; I > tend to beleive that having a properly indexed and tightly > integrated online format might even might help selling the book. I certainly can't speak for O'Rielly, but I can take a guess at their logic. It goes something like this: If people begin reproducing copies of the book, in PDF, HTML Help, whatever form, and distributing it, they will soon be all over the net. It is not in its finished form. It may have misspellings, or technical errors that will (hopefully) be corrected before publication. When the final version comes out, will they be able to guarantee that all old copies of the book are updated with the final version? If someone downloads a copy with a lot of errors, and gets a bad impression of the book, is that fair to O'Reilly, given that it was not the final version they were looking at? If we simply wait until its final before reproducing it, this becomes much easier to manage. At least, that's my $0.02. > Wolfgang Strobl --Jeff --- Jeff K. Hoffman 704.849.0731 x108 Chief Technology Officer mailto:jeff.hoffman@goingv.com Going Virtual, L.L.C. http://www.goingv.com/