+1 with Tres' position.<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 9:47 AM, Tres Seaver <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:tseaver@palladion.com">tseaver@palladion.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div class="im">-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----<br>
Hash: SHA1<br>
<br>
Martijn Faassen wrote:<br>
</div><div><div></div><div class="h5">> Jim Fulton wrote:<br>
>> On Apr 17, 2009, at 11:49 AM, Martijn Faassen wrote:<br>
>><br>
>>> Simon Michael wrote:<br>
>>>> -1, Gary's is clearer.<br>
>>> I think what is clear or not is very subjective. I think that at least<br>
>>> is clear.<br>
>><br>
>> I think it is clear that you are disregarding many people's opinions.<br>
><br>
> Okay, I'll come back with a bit more rational response than my first one.<br>
><br>
> Could you also tell me how I'm disregarding people's opinions in this<br>
> thread? Examples?<br>
><br>
> Or do you think stating my own opinions and concerns, while I'm clearly<br>
> (explicitly mentioned) thinking this topic through, is tantamount to<br>
> disregarding other people's opinions?<br>
><br>
> Do you really think I'm in this discussion with people just to disregard<br>
> their opinions?<br>
><br>
> I'm trying to consider the impact of changing a well-known well-used<br>
> name that carries certain expectations (different ones for different<br>
> people!) to something else that was set up explicitly to have different<br>
> expectations, namely the Zope Toolkit.<br>
><br>
> The Zope Toolkit concept was explicitly designed to *separate* those<br>
> expectations from the (vague but broad) expectations surrounding Zope 3.<br>
> I spent quite a bit of time trying to work that out. Now we're a few<br>
> weeks later. It is proposed instead we rename what we called Zope 3 to<br>
> "Zope Toolkit" and tell everybody that the expectations changed. I've<br>
> expressed clearly that's an interesting approach and also clearly that I<br>
> have some concerns.<br>
<br>
</div></div>I am -1 on pushing a "Zope3 is now the Zope Toolkit" message: I would<br>
rather that we *not bring up Zope3 in public again*, while still<br>
enabling those who have built apps atop the un-brand to maintain them.<br>
If somebody asks, "Hey, what happened to Zope3?", we can explain briefly<br>
that the core of it is now ZTK, and that the other bits have a life of<br>
their own, but *without the un-brand*.<br>
<br>
To this end, I think we sholud remove all traces of the un-brand from<br>
prominent places on our websites, try to stay "on message" as a<br>
community, while re-focusing on the technical aspects of the transition<br>
(rather than the branding / perception ones).<br>
<div class="im"><br>
<br>
Tres.<br>
- --<br>
===================================================================<br>
Tres Seaver +1 540-429-0999 <a href="mailto:tseaver@palladion.com">tseaver@palladion.com</a><br>
Palladion Software "Excellence by Design" <a href="http://palladion.com" target="_blank">http://palladion.com</a><br>
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----<br>
Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)<br>
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - <a href="http://enigmail.mozdev.org" target="_blank">http://enigmail.mozdev.org</a><br>
<br>
</div>iD8DBQFJ6LKE+gerLs4ltQ4RAkfIAKC/s1iE3sE3+fag5Tvrat6X/uM9XACfTctf<br>
EvnsuRnMvhmvoeh7JJ8L/fI=<br>
=iKI4<br>
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----<br>
<div><div></div><div class="h5"><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Zope-Dev maillist - <a href="mailto:Zope-Dev@zope.org">Zope-Dev@zope.org</a><br>
<a href="http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev" target="_blank">http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev</a><br>
** No cross posts or HTML encoding! **<br>
(Related lists -<br>
<a href="http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce" target="_blank">http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce</a><br>
<a href="http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope" target="_blank">http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope</a> )<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br>