<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 10 September 2010 14:26, Hanno Schlichting <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:hanno@hannosch.eu">hanno@hannosch.eu</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<div class="im">On Fri, Sep 10, 2010 at 3:17 PM, Martin Aspeli <<a href="mailto:optilude%2Blists@gmail.com">optilude+lists@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> If we *are* going to use a convenience pin, then surely the ability to<br>
> install on the world's most-used operating system has to be part of the<br>
> convenience. ;-)<br>
<br>
</div>That's a lame argument. Windows is almost irrelevant for the market we<br>
are in - web server deployments. </blockquote><div><br>Erm, you think so? Maybe we should do a poll on how many Zope / Plone developers use Windows on the desktop. Or look at how many people download the Windows installer. You need a dev environment, not just deployment, and a lot of people are on Windows.<br>
</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">Our own community is barely able to<br>
keep up providing the most basic Windows support and ensuring tests<br>
pass. As long as we don't have more community volunteers actually<br>
caring about Windows support, I won't let it be an argument to<br>
penalize the rest of the community.<br><div class="im"></div></blockquote><div><br>When the software breaks, people go elsewhere. I didn't say Windows support was easy, or any fun. But we have to decide: do we care about people who have made (or are forced to make) different technology choices than us, or do we tell them their platform is unsupported?<br>
</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div class="im">
> If we don't use it, we shouldn't pin it, IMHO. We found this problem because<br>
> the Zope KGS was overriding another KGS where we had pinned lxml to 2.2.4. I<br>
> don't think Zope has any business getting in the way of that.<br>
<br>
</div>The KGS is a base KGS you can use. Nobody forces you to stick to it.<br>
In fact for every single deployment of your own you will need to<br>
extend it. I don't see a problem with the few people using Windows and<br>
not installing compilers on their platforms to change one version pin.<font color="#888888"><br></font></blockquote><div><br> I think you're missing the point:<br><br> - We shouldn't pin software we don't use. It may be well intentioned, but if we don't depend on it, we shouldn't take responsibility for it, or give the perception that we take that responsibility.<br>
<br> - If we do depend on it, we need to make sure it works on the platforms we support. QA isn't something you do only when it's easy to do in your local dev sandbox.<br><br> - If we suddenly no longer support Windows, we better have the guts to come out and say it, stop producing Windows eggs for Zope 2 stuff and explicitly state that people cannot and should not use Windows for Zope development. I hope that's not the case, though. ;)<br>
<br>Martin<br></div></div>