Yes, we need hype! And a "hot" looking site, WITH Web 2.0 features. <br><br>Many of these frameworks are providing AJAX capabilities, simple graphics and data/object access without page reloads. (like I am using with Dojo right now) What does Zope not provide these features "built-in"?
<br><br>And yes, about the central docs. A ton of info is available right on <a href="http://Zope.org">Zope.org</a>, but I always find more on individual blogs or other google searches. <a href="http://Zope.org">Zope.org
</a> could use a more intuitive help finder maybe. Actually, how aboot a Zopedigg? Diggs on just Zope articles and such, with comments? That would be hot! Better and easier than a wiki, IMHO. The one thing I would say is, from my perspective, when I have info to share on Zope work I have done, I like to post on my blog or site, not Zope's. Because I like to provide a demo or maybe include things *my* way. Having a ZopeDigg would allow us to post our work in a central repository, and look a little flashy too.
<br><br>The video tutorial should be made. Like RoR and Symfony-project have. It shows beginners how easy something is to do. And they will download it. I did. <br><br>Also, I know this will get some people flaming probably, but Zope needs more hype for DTML. I KNOW! 99% of you hate it. But every time I show someone how to do it, their eyes light up. It's very simple coming from ASP or PHP, once you see it in action. ZPT is just plain confusing to me. I hate to say this too, but I am doing much more in PHP these days, partly due to the fact that there exists a large "dtml sucks" attitude in the community. And even though it has been said that DTML is not going away, if there is no hype about it, then it might. And I don't want to keep using Zope without it. Yes, yes, I know DTML has many disadvantages, but it also has many advantages. I wish there were more hype about it.
<br><br>So, here's a big "wish" of mine too. What if Zope was a *complete* framework, including a web based IDE? I dont mean the ZMI, which is hot in itself, but a full featured AJAX-ish IDE, built upon Zope. Drag and drop widgets and properties even. It would also have full database access built in. Mysql, Mssql, Oracle, Postgresql, all ready to go, without needing to purchase and configure a database adapter. This would provide a web based, development framework like .NET using Visual Studio. Only this would work on Zope, and therefore would run on Linux OR Windows! It doesnt have to be so comprehensive like VS, but simple form editor with properties and XMLHTTPRequest capability would be great. I think we would have a KILLER APP!
<br><br>Well, maybe I am dreamin? Just thought I'd give my 2 cents.<br><br>Oh, and is the community growing? Well, I think the Netcraft surveys say a lot. I know this isnt definitive, but I think it's great info. Since I started using Zope in 2002, the sites using Zope have grown from 6000 to 42000. Cool!
<br><br>42000+ Sites in 2006<br><a href="http://survey.netcraft.com/Reports/0601/">http://survey.netcraft.com/Reports/0601/</a><br><br>6000+ Sites in 2002<br><a href="http://survey.netcraft.com/Reports/0201/">http://survey.netcraft.com/Reports/0201/
</a><br><br><br><br>Happy new year everyone!<br><br><br><br><div><span class="gmail_quote">On 1/3/06, <b class="gmail_sendername">Jonathan Cyr</b> <<a href="mailto:cyrj@cyr.info">cyrj@cyr.info</a>> wrote:</span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<font size="-1"><font face="Verdana">Do we know.... Is the Zope
community growing or shrinking? Is there even a problem? Is Python
growing or shrinking? Is there any connection? <br>
<br>
<a href="http://Zope.org" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">Zope.org</a> seems to have been built as a community center, with accounts/
3rd party add-ons etc. Is it working. RubyonRails.com has none of
this functionality.<br>
<br>
Perhaps a GetZope.com site, similar to GetFirefox.com is in order, that
provides a very small amount of "get started" information.<br>
<br>
Two Cents,<br>
<br>
-Jon<br>
</font></font><div><span class="e" id="q_1089236f44ccb25a_1"><br>
Gert Thiel wrote:
<blockquote cite="http://midBFD08B64.B19D4%25GertThiel@gmx.net" type="cite">
<pre>Dear friends.<br><br>A few days ago the Ruby on Rails development team published the 1.0 release.<br>At that occasion the Zope fans are reminded how far Zope fell far behind in<br>terms of attention and recognized widespread.
<br><br>Python has batteries included. Zope is a power plant. But still everyone<br>speaks of Django, Turbogears or Ruby on Rails. Even if they talk about the<br>shortcommings of J2EE.<br><br>Some of the best content management systems are build using Zope 2. CPS, ZMS
<br>and my favourite: Plone. And Typo3 gets even more attention. Why?<br><br>Because we failed. We aren't marketing Zope at all. Have a look at <a href="http://zope.org" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">
zope.org</a>.<br>Do you think, that any CEO will stay at that site more than 10 seconds? Have<br>a look at <a href="http://rubyonrails.org" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">rubyonrails.org
</a> and cry. Zope 3.2 will be delivered soon. Have any<br>look at <a href="http://zope.org" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">zope.org</a> where is You got it.<br><br>To a certain extent Zope 2 was attracting like a nuclear power plant.
<br>Whenever I start programming with Zope 2, latest for Plone, I can feel its<br>power before even diving into it much, but I'm alarmed of its pitfalls at<br>the very same time. So all my hopes are with Zope 3 which enabled me without
<br>hurting me yet. Will I get a truly powerful replacement for J2EE?<br><br>Here are my ideas to make Zope 3 the most successful framework ever:<br><br>Make them love Zope at the very first look:<br><br> * Make installing Zope a double-click or one-command-only experience and
<br> * offer a 30 minutes tutorial of programming an useful application<br> including an audiovisual show for an appetizer that offers a feeling<br> of success.<br><br>Bribe the managers:<br><br> * Include Microsoft SQL-Server and Oracle relational database access.
<br> * Include powerful XML processing facilities and<br> * include everything necessary and useful to build or use web services.<br><br>Enable the beginners:<br><br> * Easy to read and understand but still complete and current
<br> documentation is a must.<br> * Avoid cluttering everything about Zope across articles, blogs, chats,<br> mailing lists and wikis. Keep everything available and searchable at<br> one central location.
<br><br>Remember: The power of Ruby on Rails doesn't come from either Ruby or the<br>framework but from its community.<br><br>And of course make Zope 4 even better.<br><br>Regards,<br><br> Gert<br><br><a href="http://www.gertthiel.de/blog/drafts/ivory-tower/" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">
http://www.gertthiel.de/blog/drafts/ivory-tower/</a>
_______________________________________________<br>Zope maillist - <a href="mailto:Zope@zope.org" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">Zope@zope.org</a>
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</blockquote>
<br>
</span></div><span class="sg"><pre cols="72">-- <br>Jonathan Cyr<br><a href="http://www.cyr.info" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://www.cyr.info</a>
<a href="http://www.weddingweblog.com" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://www.weddingweblog.com</a>
<a href="mailto:cyrj@cyr.info" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">cyrj@cyr.info</a></pre>
</span><br>_______________________________________________<br>Zope maillist - <a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:Zope@zope.org">Zope@zope.org</a><br><a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope" target="_blank">
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</a> )<br><br><br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Greg Fischer<br>1st Byte Solutions<br><a href="http://www.1stbyte.com">http://www.1stbyte.com</a>