[BlueBream] BlueBream TTW

Christopher Lozinski lozinski at freerecruiting.com
Mon Feb 13 15:35:57 UTC 2012

On 2/13/12 5:47 AM, Thierry Florac wrote:
> But I faced too much difficulties on several
> sides (source code version management, deployment on production
> sites...) and didn't want to keep this way of working for my new
> applications built on top of ZTK and ZopeApp 
Clearly that is an issue.  Sure newbies want to use a browser to edit a
simple hierarchy of objects on a single server to represent their web
pages.  But very quickly they will get into issues of multiple
developers, staging and production servers and distributing content and
code.  We live in a distributed world, we need distributed development

Something like git for ZODB objects is needed.  I took  a look at the
git object model.


It is also a tree of objects.  Looks like it should be possible to map
onto a ZODB tree of objects quite easily.    And from that we get all
the nice features of git.  Here is the video of Linus, the Git author,
talking at Google
about distributed systems. 


There is a lot more to this topic than meets the eye.  Historically code
is kept in git, data in the database.  Then they are treated
differently.  With this approach a single model is responsible for
distributing, replicating and backing up code and data.   I leave it to
the reader to work out the details.  Of course lots of work to be done.
  Many hands make light work. 

    applications built on top of ZTK and ZopeApp (not really BlueBream
    anymore because AFAIK this one didn't follow new releases of ZTK and
    ZopeApp packages).

I am well aware of this.  It is a real Zope 3 turnoff to see that the
current BlueBream release is a year old. Clearly a ZTK known good set is
needed.  Bluebream fills that role nicely.
One of the things I would like to see is that BlueBream gets upgraded
with the current releases.     We should all be embarrassed.  I need to
submit a contributor agreement.   Also I have asked for permission to
edit the Wiki. 

As for my progress, well I was most worried about putting acquisition
back into Zope 3, but it has already been done.


The first adaptor looks like it enables acquisition.  Only a single line
of ZCML is needed. 
Whoever designed and wrote BlueBream is beyond brilliant.

Taking a high level point of view.  There is a huge amount of code in
ZTK, hundreds of thousands of lines of code.  As Zope gets bigger it
takes longer and longer to figure out how to do things, and less and
less time to actually do them.  It turns us into Wizards, clearly those
who know more can do more faster. They are so powerful.   It is a far
cry from when I started programming with a compiler and a small set of
class libraries.  And of course the common person, read ignorant
manager, cannot tell the advantage of Zope over other tools with large
brand names attached.    Which is why it needs a simple webby interface
to show them how easy it is to do things. 

Powerful and easy to use is irresistible.  Right now BlueBream is very powerful, but hugely difficult to understand let alone start using.  And that is from a person who already understands many of the Zope concepts and terminology. 

Anyhow back to figuring out how to make this happen.  Thanks enormously for the comments. 


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