[ZF] Foundation goals survey

Andreas Jung lists at zopyx.com
Wed Jan 22 16:11:51 CET 2014

Hash: SHA1

Roger Ineichen wrote:
>> But most the time if I read mails from you on the zope mailing
>> list you are propagate that zope is dead. Ok that's probably what
>> you think but not what I think. Because we are running our
>> business based on zope since many years.

There is no contradiction. Plone is the only major project that actively
uses Plone. And as with many businesses: we support Plone
for the time being but apart from that I don't believe that any
company would invest much money into the further development of Zope.
Zope is legacy IMO - but as with opinions: you don't need to follow
my opinion. And many Zope/Plone shops went out of business or moved on
other technology like Pyramid and checked their focus completely.
>> We and probably many companies out there doing business with their
>> applications which are based on zope or parts of it. And there is
>> no reason to switch to another framework.

At some point you have to maintain the underlaying technology stack
yourself if you have any further development or support by a larger
community. Using Zope in the future is like living on an island. Every
technology had its time and the time of Zope is over in my eyes.

>> In this point, zope is one of the most consistent and stable
>> framework I ever worked with.

Nobody doubts that. On the other hand: the concepts introduced with Zope
3 and the ZTK were perhaps cool years ago but with the experience of
many year I consider many parts of the ZCA nowadays as failed because
they are over-engineered. I tried to explain this morning some average
developer some zope.schema with source binders etc. The related code is


The level of abstraction here is pure brainfuck. It is hard to get as
core developer and it is extremely hard to get it into the heads of
non-core developer...

>> I could agree with you if you whould say that most zope developer 
>> don't take the time to respond to the mailing list or that they
>> are not very visible in a community. And this brings us back to my
>> initial mail. If someone tries to improve this situation. It's more
>> then anoying to read that zope should be dead as an initial
>> respond.

I am missing a realistic view on the situation of Zope here. Zope
sprint, Zope trainings....yes, that happened years ago...the future
of Zope had been discussed at the Zope summit in Halle some years ago
with little results, litte consensus, no vision. So are there any new
constraints or variables in the game that would the future of Zope more
brighter - years after the Zope summit?

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