[ZF] Foundation goals survey

Roger Ineichen roger at projekt01.ch
Wed Jan 22 16:59:23 CET 2014

Hi Andreas

> Betreff: Re: AW: AW: [ZF] Foundation goals survey
> Hash: SHA1
> Roger Ineichen wrote:
> ´
> >
> >> But most the time if I read mails from you on the zope mailing
> >> list you are propagate that zope is dead. Ok that's probably what
> >> you think but not what I think. Because we are running our
> >> business based on zope since many years.
> There is no contradiction. Plone is the only major project that actively
> uses Plone. And as with many businesses: we support Plone
> for the time being but apart from that I don't believe that any
> company would invest much money into the further development of Zope.
> Zope is legacy IMO - but as with opinions: you don't need to follow
> my opinion. And many Zope/Plone shops went out of business or moved on
> other technology like Pyramid and checked their focus completely.
> >
> >> We and probably many companies out there doing business with their
> >> applications which are based on zope or parts of it. And there is
> >> no reason to switch to another framework.
> At some point you have to maintain the underlaying technology stack
> yourself if you have any further development or support by a larger
> community. Using Zope in the future is like living on an island. Every
> technology had its time and the time of Zope is over in my eyes.
> >> In this point, zope is one of the most consistent and stable
> >> framework I ever worked with.
> Nobody doubts that. On the other hand: the concepts introduced with Zope
> 3 and the ZTK were perhaps cool years ago but with the experience of
> many year I consider many parts of the ZCA nowadays as failed because
> they are over-engineered. I tried to explain this morning some average
> developer some zope.schema with source binders etc. The related code is
> here:
> http://pastie.org/8657277
> The level of abstraction here is pure brainfuck. It is hard to get as
> core developer and it is extremely hard to get it into the heads of
> non-core developer...
> >> I could agree with you if you whould say that most zope developer
> >> don't take the time to respond to the mailing list or that they
> >> are not very visible in a community. And this brings us back to my
> >> initial mail. If someone tries to improve this situation. It's more
> >> then anoying to read that zope should be dead as an initial
> >> respond.
> I am missing a realistic view on the situation of Zope here. Zope
> sprint, Zope trainings....yes, that happened years ago...the future
> of Zope had been discussed at the Zope summit in Halle some years ago
> with little results, litte consensus, no vision. So are there any new
> constraints or variables in the game that would the future of Zope more
> brighter - years after the Zope summit?

I agree iif this belongs to the zope community and not to the
zope as software.

Roger Ineichen

> Andreas
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