[Grok-dev] The Grok Learning Curve
sebastian at urbantalk.se
Thu Aug 16 05:17:59 EDT 2007
Just some thoughts about Grok learning curve.
I am really looking forward to using Uli's class and object browser.
But apart from that I would like to share my thoughts on what it is
like to learn how to use Grok.
For me, learning Grok is like taking a trek in a rain forrest.
Fortunately there are a lot of natives around and they are friendly
and happy to share their knowledge. However, there is very little in
terms of maps or even simple grafitti around. At least as far as I
can tell. I have heard some references to sandboxes etc. but they
might as well be hidden in caves, because it isn't all that
accesible. All I see is trees...
I had a similair experiece when learning Zope 2. Then I found DocTab
extension and zopelabs.com and it changed everything to the better.
Still, Zope was obfuscated by the abundance of documentation on the
Zope website, most of which was outdated or incomplete.
-If we get the class/object browser working well, a lot is won
(browsing the Zope 3 source code in the file system can be rather
-I also believe that we would gain a lot if we could get people like
myself setup so they can debug their projects more efficiently
(someone mention post mortem debugging, currently I am still stuck in
trial and error!)
-I also believe (contrary to a comment in a post on this mailing
list) that it is quite useful to use recipes that "just work"
eventhough one at the time doesn't understand how (that's how most
people learn to talk and read -- learn by example)
-Also, there is more and more docs and stuff on Zope 3 (I have
Philipps book right beside me) but I am not 100% confident with how
to "translate" it into the Grok universe (I do the trial and error...)
So, I would suggest focusing/furthering the efforts along these four
1 -- Refine the class/object browser
2 -- Document how one sets up a usable debugging environment
3 -- Add more recipes (currently called Howto's)
...and less important but still very useful if one owns Philipps book...
4 -- Document how one translates pure Zope 3 knowledge to Grok
Uli is working on 1, nobody is working on 2, we have a couple of 3
and nothing of 4. In the current state it is a pain to learn Grok. I
don't mind pain, but not too much pain.
Everybody can write a recipe, I mean a recipe showing how to register
and use a utility is really useful to a newbie. A recipe showing how
to create and extend users... lots of stuff. This stuff can be found
in Philipps book, but as a newbie, it isn't a piece of cake to
understand the Zope 3 stuff and then Grok it.
If everybody took upon themselves to write at least three recipes, we
would be getting somewhere and getting there fast :) and please...
how to I get into some serious debugging...? :)
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