[Grok-dev] Re: Grok and Ajax : KSS ?

Jimmie Houchin j.zope at cyberhaus.us
Tue Jul 24 14:16:39 EDT 2007

My apologies.

I accidentally posted this reply from this thread, into another thread.
(Re: defining permissions in a module)

It wasn't until I read Jan-Wijbrand Kolman's reply to this message, but 
with a subject I did not remember replying to. Oops.
> Jan-Wijbrand Kolman wrote:
> Spot on. If I may say so.
> regards,
> jw 

Please forgive the misplacement of my reply.


Martijn Faassen wrote:
 > Godefroid Chapelle wrote:
 > I don't know the status of Philipp's work.
 > My thinking currently is the following:
 > I like KSS's declarative approach, which allows one to do ajaxy stuff
 > without a lot of code.
 > It's also very unique to the Zope world though - people outside of the
 > Zope world are unlikely to have come across it.
 > If one would use some kind of well-known "traditional" javascript
 > library/ajax framework, the learning curve for newcomers might be a
 > lot less, as they might already be familiar with those approaches.
 > We can also reuse a lot of the existing documentation,
 > pointing to that.
 > On the other hand, if someone is a complete newcomer to web developer,
 > following traditional ways of doing things matter less and KSS may be
 > a better fit.
 > This kind of thinking leads to an impasse which leads me to say, "we
 > should support both approaches". But that sucks. What do we document?
 > Grok is about providing one obvious way of doing things.
 > So I don't really know the answer there. This may mean this is a good
 > point to have a bit broader discussion and get some more diverse
 > inputs on this.

Regardless of new or old, does the KSS approach fit your brain better?
Do you (we) believe it to be a better more productive approach once 
learned than other framework/js approaches?

Regardless of traditional approaches, where do we want to go from here? 
Where do we want to be? Does KSS do a better job of getting us there 
than a traditional js integration approach?

I think these are better question to answer than, does it make it easier 
on someone coming from Rails, TG, Pylons, etc.

If it is truly better and more productive, they will learn it easy enough.

Zope is already a different approach to web development. But those who 
are here, are here because they think that it is a better way or at 
least can be a better way.

So what is the future we want for who we are?
Let us be who we are. Let it come forth from within, not imposed from 

If the Grok one obvious way is with KSS, then let it be so. Embrace it. 
Those who have another itch, should the itch be strong enough to seek to 
go around KSS, and to do the work themselves. They will do so. They 
already do so if they prefer one over the other, YUI, Dojo, 
Scriptaculous, Mochikit, etc.

Just some thoughts. :)


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