[Grok-dev] Re: an 'about grok' document

Martijn Faassen faassen at startifact.com
Wed Mar 21 10:08:39 EDT 2007


Behrang Dadsetan wrote:
> I have been going through the tutorial, saw the video tutorial from
> Philip and I am just amazed how simple it is to build grok apps.
> Before that I played around with Zope3 but never had time to finish
> the simplest CRUD :)
> Before that I used to build a few things with Zope2 and was most
> amazed by the TTW programming :)

It's great to hear Grok's working for you. Please do give us feedback 
where you think Grok could be improved.

> Even though grok would not be possible without Zope3, and all the
> credit for Zope3 should somehow be given back to them, I feel your
> About_Grok concentrates too much on the fact it builds on top of
> Zope3.

I agree that this is a worry. I would like to write more about Grok in 
isolation to Zope 3. But I do think Zope 3 and all the features is 
brings is our main asset competing with any other web framework in 
Python. I think this history and experience is our strength.

> Any one who reads the about_grok would feel it is necessary to read
> about_zope3. And I think any one who reads an about_zope3 will be
> overwhelmed or feel he did not get it.

That would be bad. :)

> I feel we need:
> 1- To mention that grok uses zope3 (maybe saying that it allows grok
> to exist but its extensive knowledge is not necessary for simple grok
> programming)
> 2- In the rest of the about_grok forget a little about zope3 just
> mentioning the functionality

Could you come up with functionality Grok offers that other (python) web 
frameworks don't offer, or don't offer as well? I want to avoid Grok 
being a 'me too!' framework.

> 3- Keep on the great work on grok and its documentation/tutorials
> 4- Work on getting a proper presentation for zope3 which right now is
> much less appealing than grok

I've worked on this in the past, but it hasn't made much progress, and I 
have to use my resources well. Right now I'm working on Grok so it's a 
lot easier to write about it.

> 5- Once Zope3 presentability has improved enough to not scare away,
> take the version of the About_Grok you wrote now and override the one
> mentioning less Zope3.
> What do you think?

I think these are good ideas. Unfortunately we need step 4 to happen 
first. Step 4 isn't going to happen any time soon unless someone steps 
up and does the work.

Grok, in another light, *is* in fact the project to increase the 
presentability of Zope 3. :)



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