[Grok-dev] Re: What is Grok anyways... time for a name change? :)

Martijn Faassen faassen at startifact.com
Wed May 9 17:59:41 EDT 2007


[I missed Oliver's reply on the mailing list - accidental private reply?]

I'm glad Grok makes people think about such issues. We'll disagree on 
some details, but I agree that presenting Grok well to its audience is 

Sebastian Ware wrote:
> I just want to recall the saying "it's all in the name".
> I think 99% of all the developer that will encounter Grok will do so 
> first by the name. Only a small fraction of them will visit the website 
> and whatever riches that might be found there.

There is a tricky balance we need to make. On the one hand, Grok wants 
to be proudly associated with Grok. This is why in some contexts I use 
"Zope Grok"; perhaps we should be doing this more often. On the other 
hand, Zope has a long history and has gained a negative reputation for 
messiness and complexity among a large group of Python developers. We 
want to invite them to Zope by saying "this is not the troublesome Zope 
you've heard about" and deemphasize the Zope aspect a little.

In writing the about text we've tried to strike this balance. I think we 
did a decent job but I'm sure we can do some more tweaking.

Because we have this tricky balance for some the balance will strike too 
much in the wrong direction. I think it would be a good idea to give 
both the Zope aspect and the motto a bit more prominence on the website. 
What about a header that says:

"Zope Grok" (different fonts perhaps for Zope and for Grok), including 
the circle-Z logo somewhere perhaps (I need to check whether that's okay 
trademark-wise first, though). Below it: "Now even cavemen can use Zope 3".

> Thus, I think it is paramount to have the relationship to Zope 3 stated 
> right there in the name. Because this is what really sets Grok apart 
> from other python frameworks.
> If Mochikit makes Javascript suck less... then "Grok puts a twist on 
> Zope 3" and in both cases, the curious will want to know how...
> Alternatively, you could use lots of marketing dollars/hours on trying 
> to educate developers around the world. ;)

I don't think it's that bad. If people just see the name and never even 
read a few paragraphs of text about Grok, then I think there's not a big 
loss there. The website as is does make it quite clear that Grok is 
based on Zope in multiple ways, including the domain name itself.



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