[Grok-dev] Re: What is Grok anyways... time for a name change? :)
faassen at startifact.com
Thu May 10 11:14:28 EDT 2007
I took some notes from this thread (thanks Sebastian for starting it)
which would be a good starting point to start working on
changing/expanding/new texts for grok.zope.org. Martin, I'd be happy if
you could produce something here - from what you write we seem to have
been effective in communicating what Grok is all about to at least you. :)
We can then work together at giving it the proper place on the website.
Now to the digression:
Martin Aspeli wrote:
>> A programming language named after Monty Python's flying circus?
> Actually, in the types of circles I work, Python is seen as a poor
> cousin to Ruby, because people have heard of Rails (a lot, if you read
> thins like InfoQ or TheServerSide, it's like the cool new thing), and
> say "Python needs something like that". Hence the whole
> Guido-chooses-a-framework thing (yay, that made a whooping great amount
> of difference). Actually, Python is (from what I can tell) a lot broader
> in scope and possibly more widely used than Ruby, it's just that to most
> people (at last among certain groups) "Ruby" is a shorthand for
> "Ruby-on-Rails" and Rails has had ridiculous hype.
> But I digress...
Right, Ruby (through Ruby on Rails) has definitely been hyped extremely
I'd say Python is *definitely* more widely used than Ruby, by the way.
(though of course that might be changing if Ruby on Rails grows).
Python's very extensive library support is a witness to that. I think
there are few programming languages out there that have the range of
choice in libraries that Python has by now.
I was actually pleased to discover recently some *negative* discussions
on Ruby, and Rails, in the blogosphere. I wish them well, but after so
much hype it was a breath of fresh air. A bit more realism will do them
good - they're probably going to learn a lot of lessons the Zope
community has learned years ago. As a nice bonus, and ironically so,
Python is gaining the reputation of actually being *fast* in the Ruby
Anyway, to bring this back to Grok, Grok wants to have the cake and eat
it: we say Grok is cool and exciting and new *and* grounded in years and
years of hard-won experience. It is built on a solid mature platform but
it's *not* crufty and messy. One of our main assets in the Zope
community is a deep history and deep experience. If we can associate
maturity/experience with new/cool in people's minds, we stand a chance
of making an impact.
Note that I've seen Rails, Django and TurboGears use something like this
strategy: "yeah, this is new, but based on years of experience/in house
work/existing other frameworks we're reusing". Zope can do that better
as we have our experience in the public record.
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