[Grok-dev] Re: grok.zope.org design proposal (ok, kill me...)

Martijn Faassen faassen at startifact.com
Mon May 28 09:15:59 EDT 2007

Hey Martin and Sebastian,

Some response to this feedback (belatedly):

Martin Aspeli wrote:
> My ten-second impression/constructive criticism:
>  - layout is professional


>  - structure ("tracks") are good, clear

Agreed. Still I prefer 'contribute' to 'share', myself.

>  - Way, way too little contrast on buttons and headings

Agreed. Let's up the contrast dramatically. A bit more colorful wouldn't 
hurt, I think.

>  - Text size/layout is fine, though there seems to be a bit too much 
> variation in the font sizes used

I think text size a notch higher wouldn't hurt, actually. It makes the 
text seem less dense.

> Some deeper points:
>  - The inclusion of the caveman is too superficial. As I said before, I 
> *like* the logo, and the concept permeates the documentation and 
> examples. Let's build him in, not make him an afterthought

+10. I agree the caveman needs to be there, in full color. We risk 
losing playfulness. That's why I'm for more colors and more cavemen. :)

>  - We need one caveman message. The way it's presented now, it says 
> "cavemen are stupid, this is where we try to dumb it down", which I 
> think is broadly negative. I'd rather we didn't attach so much meaning 
> to it, and just went with the theme as something light-hearted, personally.

I actually like the 'Who is Grok' section on the current homepage quite 
a bit. Caveman with a giant club, simple description of who he is. Makes 
people enjoy the theme right away, and they come into mailing list 
and/or IRC channel like: ME GROK HELLO!

This is *good*. We should keep it. I think it's better than "Wait a 
minute, who is the caveman?" which makes it a bit of an afterthought.

On the about page on the current site we have:

"Grok appeals to the caveman or woman in all of us. Cavemen, like us 
programmers, want powerful and flexible tools. Cavemen are great at 
tools after all; they invented the whole concept of them. But cavemen, 
and we, also want our tools to be simple and effective.

Cavemen want tools like clubs: a club is powerful, flexible (you can 
bash in anything, mash potatoes too) and also simple and effective. Zope 
3 is already powerful and flexible. Grok aims to make it simpler and 
more effective, for beginners and experienced developers alike. Grok: 
now even cavemen can use Zope 3."

I think this is better than the text on the new site in the "Wait a 
minute.." section.

>  - Similarly, the logo and branding seems to be "Grok Zope 3". I'm not 
> sure we all agreed on that, and it's a decision that at least we ought 
> to vote on a few different proposals for - for the final version of 
> course, I realise you've just gone with what you have.

I wanted to bring this up so it's good somebody else did. I'll reply to 
further discussion on this when I feel I need to. :)

> All in all, I think you're doing a great job, and I'm very impressed by 
> your dedication and enthusiasm. :)

Very much agreed! This work is awesome!

I am happy with Martin's criticisms too as he's pretty well channeling 
my own intended comments. :)



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