[Grok-dev] Re: Admin UI name change suggestion

Wichert Akkerman wichert at wiggy.net
Fri Oct 5 04:39:17 EDT 2007

Previously Wichert Akkerman wrote:
> Previously Martijn Faassen wrote:
> > Philipp von Weitershausen wrote:
> > >Wichert Akkerman wrote:
> > >>Previously Martijn Faassen wrote:
> > >>>Before there's much more naming discussion, I should make clear that 
> > >>>there are two target audiences:
> > >>>
> > >>>* site managers. They may want to install or deinstall an 
> > >>>application, restart Zope, and such things.
> > >>
> > >>I suspect the majority of sites will run a single grok app per instance.
> > >>For those 'install an application' should not be an explicit action, it
> > >>should happen automatically by taking over the Zope root. In other words
> > >>for most deployments I do not expect that a separate UI will be needed
> > >>here.
> > >
> > >Well said. Absolutely agreed.
> > 
> > I have the impression some of this feedback arose because Grok actually 
> > allows something that's quite powerful but that people may not be used 
> > to from experience with other frameworks; the ability to install 
> > multiple applications into the same server.
> > 
> > If you turn the Zope 3 root into a grok application, there are some 
> > questions, like:
> > 
> > How do you remove the application again and reinstall it? This is what I 
> > do quite a frequently during development.
> > 
> > Where is the user interface to go to the introspector?
> > 
> > Where is the user interface to see my server settings, perhaps can 
> > reboot it, etc?
> > 
> > How this is actually going to make everyone's life better? So far I've 
> > heard "people are confused", but it's not clear to me that this change 
> > would make people less confused or if so, it would actually improve 
> > their lives?
> To a large part it is a deployment issue. When I deliver an application
> to a customer I do not want to have to explain them that they need to
> login to a ZMI, create an application and setup a rewrite rule in
> apache to use it.
> I want to tell them: here is the whole thing. Update buildout.cfg for
> your specific environment (IP address, port, etc.) and start the
> instance.

I'ld like to add that if you use multiple (grok) application in a ZODB
this becomes even more complex for admins since they will need to create
multiple applications.


Wichert Akkerman <wichert at wiggy.net>    It is simple to make things.
http://www.wiggy.net/                   It is hard to make things simple.

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