[Grok-dev] Re: Admin UI name change suggestion

Philipp von Weitershausen philipp at weitershausen.de
Fri Oct 5 06:00:05 EDT 2007

Martijn Faassen wrote:
> Philipp von Weitershausen wrote:
> [snip]
>>> * It is not clear to me how you would delete the grok.Application and 
>>> re-add it again during development. It is something you do all the 
>>> time., esp. in the beginning of the development cycle. This also 
>>> touches the issue of intergrating your grok.Application with other 
>>> Zope-3 based software.
>> We could simply add a view for grok.Applications, e.g. /recreate, that 
>> would delete the object and create a new one. *That* I think is easily 
>> solved.
> You'd get rid of the UI in favor of a /recreate view? We have a UI. It 
> can show broken objects. It can install multiple applications. You can 
> click to the introspector. You want to throw it out completely

No. I want to refactor it.

Your tone suggests that I'm willing to sacrifice everything we've worked 
for on for this idea. That's not true. First of all I wouldn't suggest 
these changes if I didn't think the outcome was worth it. And second, 
I'm nowhere suggesting to degrade in functionality. I just want Grok to 
make a beginner choice for you.

> in favor of ad-hoc approaches. Why?
>  > The multiple apps use case is for us experts.
> That doesn't make any sense at all to me. You're saying people can't 
> install multiple applications into a UI?

No they *can*. But so far I've yet to find a single person who wanted to 
do that when they were learning Grok.

> You need to be an expert to do this? You're proposing to make
> something that's *easy* now hard and only  for exports for which reasons exactly?

I think misunderstood me.

> Grok is based on Zope. Zope has been able to do this for a decade or so. 
> To me, you're proposing to go backwards because other frameworks can't 
> do this.

No. I think I was pretty clear about the reasons why I brought it up. It 
confused people. I nowhere said that I want to do this because other 
people can't do what we can.

By the way, other frameworks *can* do it. Using Paste, for instance.

> I'm fine with supporting this scenario for deployment. I'm fine even 
> with making it *possible* for beginners to just install the application 
> directly. But I don't want to dump our UI, and I don't want to make 
> installing multiple applications harder. I like there being a web-based 
> UI for doing things; I got the impression people early on actually were 
> won over to Zope because the ZMI was cool.

Possibly. I agree with the fact that we shouldn't make things harder. I 
know we have a UI. We don't necessarily have to give that up.

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