[Grok-dev] First Experience with Grok

David Pratt fairwinds at eastlink.ca
Fri Sep 14 20:06:12 EDT 2007

In fact their is :-)  These days much is done using providers in zope 3 
of which pagelets and viewlets are examples. Very little is done with 
macros if you can help it. As opposed to the rotterdam skin, you will 
construct a skin from minimalist layers (see z3c.layer package) and 
configure your views, pages and templates with your own layer using zcml.

Other advice - use z3c.form and not formlib. z3c.form works hand in hand 
with the Minimal or PageletBrowserLayer. It is easy with layers to 
separate presentation for different purposes (ie to provide different 
skins including an admin skin that you may wish to create to replace 

With zc.buildout and eggs, you determine which packages to use zope and 
do away with those you don't need. It is very different paradigm from 
zope 2. I am not sure how much time you have spent on z3 at present. If 
it is little, my advice may not seem as helpful. Grok makes it easy to 
get started in Zope 3 but hides many of the things that can take some 
time to learn. That's alright though since you can still create useful 
apps that work with Grok while you expanding your zope 3 knowledge.

BTW, hope things are well, we haven't communicated in a while. Are you 
still involved in that large project? It is good to see you back.
Jim has made changes to ZODB, more sprucing and bringing up to date. I 
am wanting to get back to some work on storages again myself to do the same.


Shane Hathaway wrote:
> David Pratt wrote:
>> I'd argue that Zope 3 is a framework but without one that doesn't impose 
>> limits with what you might want to do with it. It is not really 
>> 'contained' like any other framework. Maybe the framework without a 
>> frame :-) It is only configuration that explicitly binds your work 
>> together. I find it a natural place for a python programmer but others 
>> may disagree. Zope 3 may not be well marketed - but is it excellent? 
>> Certainly. Twisted is another example of this. Fortunately for folks 
>> that wish to dig deeper in Zope 3, Grok's ease ought to at least attract 
>> them to consider the journey. I am happy that Grok provides this 
>> opportunity and a welcoming community. :-)
> Thanks.  I know there's good stuff in there begging to be used.
> Unfortunately, I just had a slightly disappointing experience.  I
> entered an invalid URL and got a 404 error based on the Rotterdam skin.
>  Ugh!  IMHO, the Rotterdam skin is an example of something Zope 3 does
> badly.  I don't want the Rotterdam skin to exist in my site.  What is
> the best way to remove it?  I hackishly changed some ZCML, but is there
> a maintainable way?
> Shane

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