[Grok-dev] Re: My feedback on the new Grok website

Tres Seaver tseaver at palladion.com
Fri Jan 4 13:12:07 EST 2008

Hash: SHA1

Sebastian Ware wrote:
> 4 jan 2008 kl. 15.25 skrev Martijn Faassen:
>>> "Grok - a powerful web framework for cavemen or cavewomen"
>> I need to ponder that. It becomes a bit less catchy. "Cavepeople"  
>> would do, but is less
>> instantly recognizable and therefore also a bit less catchy. Here we  
>> have an almost poetic challenge. :)
> Seeing as "man" by definition means both "adult male" and "people of  
> either sex", I think it would be misguided to add "cavewomen" in the  
> name of gender equality.

While historically true, that usage is *not* widely accepted, precisely
because it marginalizes those who don't fit both definitions.  As a
group, we are hardly qualified to assess that effect (I don't know of a
single woman activily involved in developing Grok);  Kevin's feedback
here is therfore particularly valuable, as he does here from that group.

> In Sweden this debate became rather absurd for a while, with feminist  
> extremists crying foul whenever there is a remote chance that you  
> could interpret names, titles etc. this way.
> If we really want to address the gender equality in our communication  
> I would like to ask where Grok's twin sister is hiding :)

I would argue that "for cavemen" (in the plural) is actually the issue:
 the framework is supposed to be easy enough that even the made-up Grok
character can use it:  we aren't trying to make our potential users
envision *themselves* as paleolithig, are we?  If so, "I'm agin it" (I
despise the "Foo for Dummies" / "Bar for Idiots" meme).

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Tres Seaver          +1 540-429-0999          tseaver at palladion.com
Palladion Software   "Excellence by Design"    http://palladion.com
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