[Grok-dev] Re: Grok 1.0 and beyond

Luciano Ramalho luciano at ramalho.org
Sat Jan 5 19:28:55 EST 2008

On Jan 4, 2008 7:22 PM, Tres Seaver <tseaver at palladion.com> wrote:
> - -1 to expanding the core.  Note that if we make 'easy_install' a
> first-class citizen in the Grok world (see Noah's problems earlier this
> week), then we don't need or want to jam such helpers in the core:  they
> are a 'bin/easy_install <helper>' awa (in the virtualenv case).
> This is where virtualenv / easy_install shine:  you can install a thing,
> try it out, etc. with near zero effort.

It may be near zero effort for you, Tres, a hard-core Zope insider
since the last century, and very smart one to boot. For the rest of
us, downloading and installing a package is just a fraction of the

First you have to know that the package in question exists, which is
not trivial (although I admit it's getting easier with PyPI and the
eggification trend, if you are not bitten by dependency problems).

After you discover it, you have to figure out how to use it. Many docs
and tests don't provide enough context to be anything like real world
usage examples of the APIs. Most Zope 3 components I've seen are
documented; what is sorely lacking is documentation on how to put
those components together to solve real problems. And we are talking
about basic, essential stuff here: managing users, indexing and
searching, populating a select widget with options, stuff that every
web developer needs.

I think Grok core has to integrate and document a wider set of
facilities if it is to be favorably compared to other agile web

Best regars,


More information about the Grok-dev mailing list