[ZDP] Re: Stuff

[Rik Hoekstra]

Hi Maik

>
>Rik Hoekstra schrieb:
>> > The software on the Zope.org site is not open, so the only thing we can
>> > do is do our own thing on ZDP.
>>
>> yes. As if that wouldn't be enough ;-)
>
>Sorry, I don't get the joke, could you please explain.

Never mind.

<snip>


>
>If people find good information there, they will return.


That is true of course,. It was out of this concern (how will people find
good information) that I wrote my previous mail.

<snip>.

>
>I know that it still is not there, so more comments are needed.


>>
>> OK, that _looks_ OK for the most part. The main missing point is that
>> you already have to know something about Zope even to start using that
>> stuff.
>
>I don't see how knowing something about Zope will help in navigating
>an internet site.
>
>> We are talking about _low_ level entry stuff here.
>
>So, there must be a problem with deciding to be one of the following:
>
>Prospective Zope Users & Developers
>Zope Users
>Zope Developers
>Zope Hackers
>Zope Administrators
>Zope Documentation Portal
>Members
>Web Designers
>New Zope Users & Developers
>
>Is that the case ?

That is the case, but more fundamentally the case is that IMNHO there is no
hierarchy on the site. Everything is presented all at once, to everyone at
the same time. It is a matter of choosing audience. For who is the site. For
all Zope users, presumably (see the quotes below). All Zope users are equal
for the ZDP. To me, this means you should present the tailor made
information to them. Now, you first have to choose what type of information
you want, and I still think the site is not helpful enough for making the
choice.

>
>Thanks for doing this type of usability studies. It would be great it
>someone could do this on people that have never visited the ZDP site.

I could try and ask some of my co-workers to visit it.

>
>> Imagine you never used Zope before and want to know a bit more. Where do
>> you start? WHat will get you running Zope as quickly as possible. Is it
>> the FAQ, the ZBook, Snippets, one of the Portals.
>
>Directly next to the news on the top of the page, it says:
>
>"Community
>
>Join our effort to provide entry points to
>all relevant pieces of information relating
>to Zope. Become a ZDP member and
>write quick introductions on all topics to
>get people started. Non-members can
>help by adding links, comments and
>drafts."
>
>So, is this not enough for people to decide where to go ?


No. My case was that people come to _get_ information, not to _contribute_
it. While these are both ligitimate approaches, I think it's wrong to mix
these up. Most people are lazy. Make it as easy for them as you can (if you
want to keep them)


>
>> How would you know
>> they were portals and not dmoz like categories - they look like search
>> categories?
>
>I agree that the text on top of the portals is not telling you about that:
>
>"Choose a Subject or Topic in your Portal (Subjects are contained in
Portals.
>Topics are contained in Subjects.)"


This text is too cryptic. Alternative:

"This site has information about the Open Source Web Information Platform
called Zope. It strives to serve this to all sorts of Zope users, both
beginners and advanced, newbies and hackers. This site is in development, so
please check back regularly to see if something of importance for you has
been added.

 All information is contained in Portals. Portals offer specific types of
information. The portals, with a short description:

- Evaluators - check out about Zope. Is it for you? What can it do for you?
How does it compare to other Web application platforms
.
.

A same sort of text should precede the different projects (ZBook, ZSnippets
etc)"

>
>Still, in the Evaluators portal at:
>
>http://zdp.zope.org/portals/evaluators
>
>There is this introductory text:
>
>"If you want to find out more about Zope, and what it
>can do for you, this Portal tries to help you to evaluate
>whether Zope is a good fit for your needs.
>
>Before you visit the Zope home page, you may want to
>get some pointers to the most interesting stuff.
>
>For example you can take a Zope Tour on Zope.org.
>
>Read An Introduction to Zope on Developer Shed by
>Brian Lloyd of Digital Creations from August 03, 1999."
>
>So, is that text not explicit enough to let the visitor
>know about what to expect ?


Ok, I understand why it's there. If you have a type of text like I proposed
above it's ok.


>
>> WHat does the news part mean?
>
>You mean ZDP News ? It is the news section of the ZDP.


That is clear, but who wants to know if he never visited the site? Put it
somewhere else - in a sidebar preferably (talking about the mockup page
here - it is ok on the current site)

>
>> You see you can search something - what.
>
>You can search globally on the ZDP site. This is the same
>on every internet site, so that's what people expect.

Ok, perhaps this wasn't fair. I'm a bit skeptic about searching in general.
But it should stay.

>
>> WHat results should you expect?
>
>All that is contained in the ZDP site.
>

But the site wasn't introduced! So what would that be?

>> How should you know all this?
>
>Users expect what they know from other internet sites, so they have
>a good idea about what they can find here.


Mwah, you're too optimistic

>
>> And this also goes for more advanced Zope users: where do I find the
>> stuff that's for me.
>
>Select your portal-

see above

>
>> How would I know whether I'm a developer or a hacker.
>
>There is an introductory text in the portal, which makes it easy to
>decide whether you are a developer or hacker.
>

say so on the frontpage. On the other hand, you shouldn't send people
somewhere to find out if its the right place for them.

>> Is there stuff in Users that's for me, or only in my own
>> category?
>
>Look in the User portal to see for whom it is and what it should
>contain.


same as above.

>
>> How does all this relate to zope.org?
>
>The portals themselves relate to Zope in the predefined searches,
>the links, and the references in the content.

I meant - what is the relation between the ZDP and zope.org. This is
something that is not entirely clear to us, so how could we make that clear
to our users?


Hope I have clarified my concerns. i"m willing to do some more writing for
the homepage, if you want me to.

Rik