[ZDP] ZDP & Zope.org

[ethan mindlace fremen]

Maik Roeder wrote:
> 
> Hi ethan !
> 
> ethan mindlace fremen wrote:
> > > The ZDP is aiming to become the starting point for the Zope
> > > community.

> In that the aim is the same. All we have to do now is merge.

I would have assumed that the ZDP's goal would be something along
the lines of "To be the comprehensive resource for Zope Documentation".
 
> > > The software on the Zope.org site is not open, so the only thing we can
> > > do is do our own thing on ZDP.
> >
> > How is the software on the Zope.org site not open?
> 
> In the sense that I can't change it's implementation.

I'm not at all certain that the implementation, i.e. products, should be
at all open for change.

One of the challenges I have with zope.org is that it has grown
organically, as various DC folks found the time to go in and do
something.  This has left it in a state that's complex to manage.

While I'm trying to move to a point where creation of content, its
reviewing, and the views on the content are done by larger or smaller
subsets of the Zope community, the products themselves need to stay
stable.

That being said, there's a lot of product work that needs to be done for
the next version of zope.org.  I'll be leveraging off of existing
efforts as much as possible, so most of the downloaded things will be
already on the product page, but some of it will still need to be
downloaded.

You could help by adding use cases to the zope-web wiki,
http://www.zope.org/Wikis/zope-web to help me capture what users really
do as opposed to what I want them to do.

> > How would it be open ?
> 
> If the implementation were free to be changed, and free to be downloaded,
> and free to be shared.

I'm working on this:

With the next version of zope.org, there will be a "how to clone
zope.org" howto.
As of 2.2 Zope.org will be running on the "stock" zope. I will work very
hard to ensure that this stays that way.  If, for some reason, it cannot
be stock, instructions for making your zope like zope.org's zope will be
made availiable.
Any products we use will be availiable for download.

> >  How is the software on the ZDP open ?
> 
> In the sense that anyone can change everything,

Is this true? Perhaps you mean that "anyone can get certain levels of
access to the zdp site provided they show interest, ability, and an
abscence of maliciousness".

Surely you don't hand root management permission to anyone who asks.

> anyone can get the code and share it with anyone.

Tracking down the ZDP-tools from a fresh start was a bit of a
challenge.  Is there a reason they're not listed in the zope product
page?

That being said, this particular aspect will be availiable.  Making
products open for people to change is just not going to happen without a
lot of latency, because our move to ZEO complicates the products picture
substantially.
 

> > > > The mailing list is helpful, but it's just too much.
> > >
> > > I hope that we can integrate the mailing list in the ZDP site, so
> > > extracting, citing and giving credit is easier.
> >
> > Heh.  And I hope to see this in zope.org, too :)
> 
> Then let's do it together. There is already a task on the zdp site
> for this, which you may want to take into consideration.

I can't find it under Tasks. Can you point it out to me?

> > We're going to be emphasizing this too, though we're planning on carving
> > things into only three groups:  developers, site builders, and buisness
> > folks.
> 
> But then again, in the HelpSystem you are using Content Managers,
> DTML Programmers and Python Programmers as category values. Maybe
> you want to split the developers into these groups ?

Well, at the moment, the development part will be for product coders
(ala PTK) and zope source code hackers.  The builder part will be for
content managers/dtml programmers.

As there will be a domain for each of these roles, I'm rather against >
3 "extra" domains:

www.zope.org -> general start
dev.zope.org -> product coders (ala PTK) and zope source code hackers
biz.zope.org -> buisness folks.
 do.zope.org -> content managers/dtml programmers.
zdp.zope.org -> comprehensive documentation, no matter your orientation
(?)
 
> > I am here to work with the community.
> 
> I still have the impression lot's of stuff is going on in the background.

Well, I have been talking to a lot of DC folks because I'm trying to get
my feet on the ground, but I assure you, this is the man behind the
curtain.  I don't do anything without talking about it on the zope-web
wiki or at zope-web@zope.org .  I also try to mention my work in the
Zope Weekly News.
 
> > I understand why there's a perception that D.C. has been less than
> > responsive, but it's my job to help change that.
> 
> I think DC is still not very responsive, at least to my current postings to
> this mailing list.

I'm here, and I read every message. 
 
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If there's anything you want my feedback on, please let me know.
-- 
ethan mindlace fremen
Zopatista Community Liason