[ZDP] BackTalk to Document The Zope Book (2.5 Edition)/Introducing Zope

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Mon, 30 Sep 2002 10:40:31 -0400

A comment to the paragraph below was recently added via http://www.zope.org/Documentation/Books/ZopeBook/current/IntroducingZope.stx#2-27


    Let's take a closer look at the Zope features that allow you to
    build and manage dynamic web sites.

      % Anonymous User - May 19, 2002 12:48 pm:
       As a business decision maker, I want to see what the "...and more" features are. Group calendars? Automatically
       expiring content? Automatic 'forgot my password' emails for users? This information needs to be up front and
       center - business people don't necessarily care about XML-RPC, object orientedness, DOM, etc, or understand
       it. The 'HOW CAN YOU BENEFIT FROM ZOPE' section reads like marketer's gibberish. Prove it, without having to
       make me create my own Zope site or read the entire damn Zope book!

      % Anonymous User - May 19, 2002 1:52 pm:
       Zope is a framework that programmers use for creating dynamic web-based applications. It is not itself an
       application. Products built on top of Zope (such as Squishdot and CMF, and the roughtly 500 other products
       that you can browse at http://www.zope.org/Products) offer these kinds of services.

      % Anonymous User - May 31, 2002 7:46 pm:
       Were I reading this introduction for information on creating a Zope site with e-commerce capabilities (and I
       am), this is where I would look.

      % Anonymous User - July 5, 2002 3:37 pm:
       Maybe when someone who self-identifies as "a business decision maker" takes the time to comment that a
       section reads like "marketing gibberish", young turks might take a moment to pause and consider rather than
       sweeping it away with a glib bit of sophistry.
       I feel the same way ... I'm not a business decision maker ... I have 30 years of tech-doc experience, and
       have been fighting this sort of window-dressing (with decreasing success) for years / decades. This is a
       lovely pamphlet, a lovely bit of evangilization, and it's all abstracted by at least one level too much.
       Heck, it isn't even an executive summary!
       Ok ... we're here, and we're reading; we don't need more sizzle. Where's the beef?!

      % Anonymous User - Sep. 5, 2002 3:33 pm:
       I have to agree about the "marketing gibberish" aspect here. It is certainly NOT too early to give a
       fine-grained real-world example here. Several would be better.
       You need to battle against the fact that many products / marketers - ESPECIALLY in this niche - abuse so much
       of the kinds of phrasing you've used so far - I need hard-fact explanations. High-level over-generalizations
       have repeatedly stung anyone deciding on software.
       For instance, "dynamic" - this is such a loaded, vague, and multiply-defined term, the only way to really
       tell me what you mean is to spell it out step-by-step in detailed terms from the perspective of "Okay, I'm
       sitting in my chair in front of my computer... Now what?"
       Not only for experienced people who have heard myriad examples of software PR BS, but perhaps more
       importantly for beginners who are new to the field (like me) who are just trying to figure out what does

      % mcdonc - Sep. 5, 2002 3:40 pm:
       I've "fixed" the "marketing gibberish" in the 2.6 version of the Zope Book at
       http://www.zope.org/Documentation/Books/ZopeBook/2_6Edition/index_html. As soon as Zope 2.6 comes out this
       will become the canonical Zope Book, and everybody can be happy. ;-)

      % Anonymous User - Sep. 30, 2002 10:40 am:
       Zope supports SOAP? The most recent docs on zope.org pertaining to SOAP (June 2002) categorically states Zope
       does not yet support SOAP, and I didn't find anything else to show otherwise. Yes, I know about Zope and
       XML-RPC and have used it.