[Zope-dev] Zope has been Hijacked! Save Zope!
seb bacon
seb@jamkit.com
Fri, 30 Nov 2001 17:20:19 +0000
Troll! And a funny one at that. (I think.)
seb
* Chris Withers <chrisw@nipltd.com> [011130 16:28]:
> I can't decide if this is a hoax or not :-S
>
> Can anyone comment?
>
> Chris
>
> Clark O'Brien wrote:
> >
> > Thanks Andrew for a heartfelt description of what is
> > happening here.
> >
> > It is clear that unlike the other freeware products
> > like Lenux, JBoss.., Zope has lost all of the
> > advantages of being a freeware product.
> >
> > What I find sad is that the extreme commercialization
> > of Zope is hurting Zope- this discussion list is
> > censored in a way that would not be allowed for most
> > commercial products.
> >
> > I posted a serious bug- Zope throws an exception after
> > trying to resolve a transaction conflict three times.
> > The discussion was quickly moved line and I was told
> > this is not a problem- Not a problem? Give me a
> > break!!
> > This nearly killed my application and cost me several
> > weeks of work.
> >
> > Those who know of these problems can write clean
> > applications but these issues are kept strictly
> > confidential.
> >
> > To the *TRUE* open source community I would just say
> > let us reclaim Zope-even if it means branching.
> > Clark
> >
> > --- Andrew Kenneth Milton <akm@theinternet.com.au>
> > wrote:
> > > Since I seem to be the cause of all hell breaking
> > > loose over here, I thought
> > > take the opportunity to respond, since I haven't
> > > really been given an
> > > opportunity to do that. Since this probably going to
> > > be my only ever
> > > posting to zope-dev, I don't feel constrained to be
> > > brief in exercising my
> > > right of reply.
> > >
> > > I'm not going to apologise for the comments I made,
> > > or the manner in which I
> > > made them. Those comments were made on a list run by
> > > me, basically for my own
> > > amusement. If I had posted either of those emails to
> > > someone else's list, I'd
> > > quite rightly deserve to be fried.
> > >
> > > I don't make money from Zope Development (I don't
> > > make money), I don't
> > > run a website, in fact, I don't actually use any of
> > > the products I have
> > > released. So it's not like I have a vested interest
> > > in Zope. My fortunes don't
> > > rest on the success or failure of Zope or any one of
> > > its components. I live
> > > in a country the size of the USA that has the
> > > approximate population of
> > > New York State. Even if I stood on a busy street
> > > corner with a loud hailer,
> > > the number of people I could actually influence
> > > would be small. This makes
> > > me one of the people in the trenches.
> > >
> > > It is the people who are in the trenches who are
> > > increasingly being
> > > disaffected by Zope Corp, it seems as if you're not
> > > subscribed to zope-dev,
> > > you have no voice, and for most people zope-dev is
> > > not an appropriate forum
> > > for them to be subscribed to. As some of you know, I
> > > was hounded off of the
> > > zope@ mailing list for suggesting that there be some
> > > other mailing list
> > > for more technical discussion. People were very
> > > upset, because, they
> > > already have a hard time getting any support. Noone
> > > from Zope Corp seems
> > > to monitor the list to help out. The zope list was
> > > manned by people like
> > > me volunteering expertise and time to help more of
> > > the little people.
> > >
> > > A lot of those people come to the irc channel, which
> > > is also rarely if
> > > ever visited by anyone from Zope Corp. Most people
> > > know that #zope is the
> > > place to go when all else fails. The major irony of
> > > this is, that most
> > > of the people seeking help on #zope are working with
> > > it, or consulting with
> > > it, and are supported by me and others for free. We
> > > are the ones that
> > > deal with the 'general zope public.' We are the
> > > defenders of the faith.
> > >
> > > The Zope Weekly News, which turned into Zope Monthly
> > > News, which now
> > > has not been updated since October is a joke. It
> > > shows Zope Corporation's
> > > attitude towards their community. It says "We don't
> > > care about our community."
> > > I'm sure that's not the feeling of the *individuals*
> > > inside Zope Corp, I'm
> > > sure it is (or I hope it is) a source of great
> > > embarassment to those
> > > individuals that work for Zope Corp.
> > >
> > > Letting your community showpiece atrophy doesn't
> > > show any great passion
> > > towards us, it certainly doesn't endear new users to
> > > Zope. New users are
> > > the only way Zope Corp is going to make more money,
> > > unless of course
> > > zope.org is just for us non-revenue generating
> > > little fish, an inconvenience
> > > associated with having Open Source software, not
> > > something that promotes
> > > and supports the non-paying community.
> > >
> > > Noone wants a standardised User Management API more
> > > than me. I *want* to
> > > have confidence that someone can replace any User
> > > Folder with XUF, and it
> > > will just work. So when I come across something that
> > > says there is a
> > > New User Management API, I get excited. I prepare to
> > > roll up my sleeves and
> > > make the necessary changes to make software I
> > > contributed to the community
> > > continue to work. I think we all know by now my
> > > opinion on what I found,
> > > the harshness of the expression of that opinion is
> > > directly related to
> > > the way that these days Zope Corp seems to be an
> > > Ivory Tower and the way
> > > they seem to treat the community at large.
> > >
> > > There are approximately 450 products released by
> > > just over 200 people on
> > > Zope.org. There are approximately 1000 'entities'
> > > subscribed to this list
> > > (more to the main list), I represent 0.1% of this
> > > community, but, am
> > > responsible (but, not soley) for 3% of the total
> > > product space available.
> > >
> > > If people want to form an opinion of me based on one
> > > email, that's your
> > > right. You don't have the right to tell me, that *I*
> > > don't have the right
> > > to say the things I'm saying. I have earned the
> > > right to make these comments,
> > > I have contributed time, effort, and code, and I put
> > > my money where my
> > > mouth is. I'm not some backseat political observer,
> > > I am in the trenches
> > > I deal with the disaffected, the confused, and the
> > > generally pissed off
> > > every day. In my efforts, I try to help to make Zope
> > > a better product.
> > >
> > > You would be hard pressed to find a more stalwart
> > > supporter of Zope than me.
> > > This doesn't mean that I have to think that
> > > everything that leaves the
> > > holy temple of Zope Corp is the panacea of web
> > > development. My opinions
> > > might be wrong, but, they're not wrong simply
> > > because something was released
> > > by Zope Corp, or written by some person you have
> > > attached some god like
> > > status to.
> > >
> > > I will continue to do my thing, but, the way Zope
> > > Corp deals with us,
> > > the little fish had better change, or there's not
> > > going to be much of a
> > > community left. Those of you who subscribe to
> > > zope-dev who think that your
> > > time is too valuable to be spent helping others,
> > > well, words fail me.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Totally Holistic Enterprises Internet|
> > > | Andrew Milton
> > > The Internet (Aust) Pty Ltd |
> > > |
> > > ACN: 082 081 472 ABN: 83 082 081 472 | M:+61 416
> > > 022 411 | Carpe Daemon
> > > PO Box 837 Indooroopilly QLD 4068
> > > |akm@theinternet.com.au|
> > >
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> >
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--
[] j a m k i t
seb bacon
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