[Zope-dev] Zopezen.org is slower! Should time be spent on Plone or ZPT speed?

[James Johnson]

Hi Andy,
    Thanks for you kind explanation.  I may have been premature in my 
assessment the new Zopezen.org.  I see your point on the various roles 
individuals can play in the open-source world.  I also believe that by you 
embracing plone so deeply gives the project much more weight and crediblity.

>Firstly lets address your subject. ZopeZen.org is slower. Why is that?
>
>- There is a lot more work being done to render a page in Plone
>- There is less caching being done, I havent optimized it as much as the 
>old
>site was
>- The BSD memory leak in Python 2.1.3 is not helping
>- More html, javascript and css is being used
<snip>

  Excuses and issues that need to be addressed no doubt.  These are the 
things that end up making most everything better in the long run.  I also 
need to mention that it's not all that slow to me.  I'm using your DTML 
based cmfZen for one of my sites, instead of plone because of ZPT speed.  I 
liken the situation back to the early days of Music Television(MTV) When 
they were small, new  and up and coming.  Their motto was simple "I want my 
MTV" hence "I want my Zope".  You can have all the other channels, ie 
CMF,Plone, MMMSkins, Transwarp, but what really drove the success  of the 
Music video was MTV.  I hope the analogy helps those to see that Zope can be 
the MTV of the CMS Market.  But with some good people switching channels, 
will Zope still end up a major player in the market?  Unless you read the 
story "Swimmy" you may not understand my meaning that in this case the 
community might not win by being a bunch of little fish pretending to be a 
big fish.

  All in all I trust andy's commitment, and I look forward to the next 
release of zopezen.


>So your suggestion is instead of not using Plone and ZPT in the real world
>to see how they perform, I should just concentrate on working on ZPT?


   No, it just seems you've even committed your efforts to plone/ZPT.  Seems 
to me you went from DTML-> Plone/ZPT.  You know a while back there was even 
talk to move some of the ZPT functionality to DTML.  Now that you've 
embraced Plone so much that It will be even longer before there are decent 
instructions on how to get a binary build of the core Zope on windows ;-)


<snip>
>The Plone project brings people to Zope, it puts Plone in front of users. 
>In
>the end that means improvements all down the line back to Zope.

  I beg to differ with you on this.  Plone brings people to Plone.  And just 
as much as the other commercial/open-source projects sought to bring users 
to Zope, those projects are long gone. ie world pilot, spoke.net, 
metapublisher, etc.  They don't even share the same audience it's been said.
  I'll say again, I think Zope is playing Swimmy when it should be playing 
MTV and setting the bar for other Content systems.
  I hope I don't offend anyone.  Like I said I agree with Andy.  I think we 
all play an invaluable role in this.   I've lost many a jobs because I've 
insisted on using Zope, That's how much I believe in Zope.  Call me a fool, 
but it is Zope that I believe in, and time spent on anythings else makes me 
nervous.

   Whatever you do let's KISS. You know Keep it simple .....!  Btw how many 
parts are you going to have to publish for us to understand Plone?

   I smell commecial interest here.  I smell people trying to make that one 
killer project hoping to make it big, instead of centering around the one 
vehicle that will help make a bunch of projects big someday.

Thanks again for your time.


Peace,
-- James
I am a Washington State Citizen.
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