Get rid of configure/make? (was Re: [Zope-dev] Re: SVN: Zope/trunk/ Merge philikon-zope32-integration branch. Basically, this branch entails:)

[Jim Fulton]

Philipp von Weitershausen wrote:
> Jim Fulton wrote:
> 
>>>What changes are those? A fresh Zope trunk checkout works for me. Here's
>>>what I did:
>>>
>>>  $ svn co svn+ssh://philikon@svn.zope.org/repos/main/Zope/trunk
>>>Zope-trunk
>>>  $ cd Zope-trunk
>>>  $ ./configure
>>>  $ make
>>>
>>>That worked for me (though I usually don't do the configure; make dance,
>>>but just do an in-place build with python setup.py build -i; see also
>>>below).
>>
>>You used to have to use "make instance" or "make inplace" to run the tests.
>>These make commands no longer work.
>>
>>make inplace could probably be fixed by making it an alias for make build,
>>since builds now seem to be in place.
> 
> 
> Good idea.
> 
> 
>>>>And I didn't manage to install Zope trunk to a different location.
>>>>That seems to be completely screwed up.
>>>
>>>"Not supported anymore" is the right wording here. Basically, the
>>>"configure; make; make install" dance is going to go away for an SVN
>>>checkout. A simple Makefile as we have it in Zope 3 that simply provides
>>>shortcuts for in-place builds will probably replace it.
>>
>>
>>I don't think that you or I have the authority to decide this.
> 
> 
> You're quite right, I don't. I don't know what made me write this in
> indicative. Sorry for that. When Fred and I brainstormed about which
> implications a zpkg-based build for Zope 2 had, not being able to
> install out-of-place was one. Therefore the above paragraph should
> rather be read as a fact description, not an edict. IOW, rather than
> saying we're not going to support it anymore, I should really have said
> that the *current setup* doesn't support it which doesn't mean we can't
> bring it back.
> 
> 
>>>We're not even sure if the configure dance makes sense for a release
>>>tarball. The only benefit of the ./configure script is that it
>>>(presumably) chooses the right Python for you, which isn't always what
>>>you want, anyways.
>>
>>>At least I do ./configure --with-python=... more than
>>>half of the times. So I could just call python setup.py install with
>>>whatever Python I want in the first place.
>>
>>It also lets you specify an install prefix.
> 
> 
> python setup.py install --home=prefix let's you do that too.
> 
> 
>>More importantly, it is a familiar model for unix systems.
> 
> 
> True. It is an unfamiliar model for Python software, though. Anyways, I
> don't think the ./configure script is the issue right now and I
> certainly don't feel strongly about it.

Most people who download Zope 2 are not Python programmers. Many of them
become Python programmers later.  I think this is a big part of Zope 2's
value proposition that we haven't matched in Zope 3 yet.

Having said that, I don't really like the configure/make farce myself.
I'd be happy to get rid of it.  I'm also happy to defer to the vocal
majority.  Maybe it's worth revisiting this, which is why the provocative
subject. :)

Jim

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