IA for zope.org (was Re: [ZWeb] A forest of Zope communities)

alan runyan alan runyan" <runyaga@runyaga.com
Fri, 1 Mar 2002 16:08:53 -0600

> When Seb's survey comes out, one of the biggest things it will point to
> is the need for, as Alan Runyan keeps saying, an information
> architecture (IA) for zope.org.  People simply can't find anything, and
> thus they use the search (which also is a sore point).
> Over the last couple of weeks, I jotted down some questions that the
> structure of zope.org should answer.  Things like "Who uses Zope?",
> "What is Zope?", etc.

where are these definitions?  lets get plone running on new.zope.org.  lets
make sure FTP is available.
and people understand how to FTP into the root of the new.zope.org and to
their member folders.

> 1) Sections.  We need to find some way to organize the enormous blob of
> content into separate piles.  It will matter less if the separate piles
> are disorganized.  At least people will intuitively find the right piles.

well. Documentation and Resources 'sections' always confused me.
I could never figure out where content would be ;) so the last statement
isnt necessarily true.

> A section is simply a page that provides links and visibility on some
> stuff pertaining to that section.  The section might or might not be a
> placeful organizational concept (meaning, it might not be a folder with
> all items in the section under that folder).

I agree.

> However, a section *should* have section owners that do the gardening.
> This would be a key aspect to making the section idea work.


> 2) Site map.  IMO, a site map would really force us to put the 100 or so
> most important items into a coherent place.

thats fine.  we should figure out what the basic functional requirements of
new.zope.org are.
what are they?  seb ? :)

> Seb's survey also seems to emphasize that there are two classes of
> visitor: those that don't know anything about Zope (and thus didn't fill
> out the survey), and "developers that want zope.org to help them develop".

*we need to have more polls on zope.org*  -- you have a huge community.  you
can ask their opinion
and get it back in a quantified way.  This is *extremely* important to
keeping your thumb on the community pulse.
is a mysql database setup on new.zope.org?

> For these two classes of users, I have a series of bullets in a sidebar
> for the home page.  This can be seen at my mockup page:
>    http://www.zope.org/Members/paul/newzopeorg/index.html
> I've spent some time working on a cleaner look than the existing
> new.zope.org, but more important are the answers it has to some of the
> IA questions.

we need to cut the links by at least 50%.

> If each of the links in the sidebar led to a very well written and
> maintained page which provided the next level of links, then we'd be in
> *much* better shape than existing zope.org.  Same for the site map.
> If we also spent extra time with the three or four big ticket items
> (packages, how-tos, case studies, etc.) then we'd be in good shape.

sounds good.

> To wrap up, I'm interested in feedback:
> 1) Does anyone agree that the next step is IA?

we should get people use to going to new.zope.org

> 2) If so, does everyone agree that sections and a sitemap are two good
> first steps towards an IA?

yes, but I think a site where people have access to change the system is
even more important.

> 3) If so, does anyone have a suggestion for the major sections?

software, business, community, overviews?
I really like 3 column layouts like http://oreilly.com/ or

> Finally, I'd like to add that Lalo has converted those mockups to Plone:
>    http://www.zope.org/Members/lalo/temp/mockup-zorg-1.html
>    http://www.zope.org/Members/lalo/temp/mockup-zorg-2.html
>    http://www.zope.org/Members/lalo/temp/mockup-zorg-3.html
>    http://www.zope.org/Members/lalo/temp/mockup-zorg-4.html

There is too much in the left nav boxes.  I like how PHP does 'What is PHP':
.  It doesnt have large amounts of realestate and includes hyperlinks in its
description.  Yes, PHP is much less ambitious than Python or ZOPE ;p
Pushing ZOPE means pushing Python. You know... ZOPE should be the portal to
ZOPE and to Python.  I think
they honestly shouldnt be inseperatable.  And it should be insinuated that
if you get ZOPE all of Python is easily
exposed to the web.

What if ZOPE.ORG was a basic portal for  ZOPE and some Python?  I think in
the selling of ZOPE you *must* sell Python.

> If Alan or Alex are interested in participating in new.zope.org, I'm
> interested in using Plone.

of course!  Plone is pretty well-congealed at this point and I believe can
be used with out too much hassle.
in fact we will be release 0.9.9 PR5 in a few hours before I go out
drinking.  I think everyone will be quite pleased with it.
It will also have a minimally skinned Collector and Wiki ;)

fight the UI uglies, http://www.plone.org/