[ZWeb] The move goes on - NZO Design modifications

Ausum. ausum_studio@hotmail.com
Thu, 16 May 2002 14:27:17 -0500

I agree with Paul. The front page looks better and better with every
revision, and this one by Olivier enhances the clear elegance of the
previous one.
But while the bichrome color schema provides the page its refinement -
and that's why we like it -, it's good to take into account at every
time that this is the page that eventually will help more people to
become into Zope users. With the current design, IMHO, newcomers could
perceive Zope as "full text stuff" instead of the powerful content
management platform and application server we know it is.

So these are my suggestions:
- To keep using the bichrome color schema and overall layout.
- To add other colors strategically by using some icons and bitmap
titles and buttons discreetely, WITHOUT breaking the elegance of the
- To add direct links to icon-announced demos. (I hope ZC to allow it)
- To consider the use of HierMenus (or its free clones) as an option
for authenticated users, to make them have more room for content by
totally removing the left bar.
- To consider the heavy use of personalization features in the future,
in order to make nzo appealing to seasoned users as well as to
absolute newcomers.

I hate to be among the people who *just* make suggestions, but I'm
currently with the hands full, and I will share the code I already
have for personalization, as soon as I finish my current nzo's tasks.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Everitt" <paul@zope.com>
To: "Olivier Deckmyn" <odeckmyn.list@teaser.fr>
Cc: <zope-web@zope.org>
Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 8:47 AM
Subject: Re: [ZWeb] The move goes on - NZO Design modifications

> Olivier Deckmyn wrote:
> > Hi there,
> >
> > I've spent several hours on nzo yesterday and today :
> >
> > You can see this 2 gif files :
> >
> > http://www.deckmyn.org/olivier/work/after.gif
> > http://www.deckmyn.org/olivier/work/before.gif
> Wow, it looks really good!  I'll spend some time trying to get it
> into CVS.
> > (Notation : * : fix ; + : add ; - : remove ; o : still to do)
> Good notation.
> >  (*) css font sizes. It's back to "pt" notation. This is the only
way to get
> > a coherent website look.
> That's too bad.  Nearly all the docs I have read have encouraged
> to switch to em as a relative point size.  While things look better
> your browser, they look worse on mine (Mozilla under Linux on a big
> Perhaps we need to find a way to accomodate this better.
> >  (*) H1, H2, H3 have more usual sizes
> >  (*) CSS clean-up
> >  (*) #326699  color was replaced everywhere by #336699, which is
> > and is the same color to my eyes.
> Fine.
> >  (*) Changed user bar a:hover color. I used a brown as the orange
> > difficult to read with the gray background.
> Perhaps over should be an underline for the nav bar, user bar, and
> bar (as well as the actions).
> >  (+) added bullets on side menu bar. One could use <LI> tag with a
bitmap in
> > the CSS. Last time I tried, it became weird, depending on browser.
> > someone is candidate to make a try.
> Sidnei and I are experimenting with the use of CSS auto-generated
> content.  If you go to:
>    http://www.x3ng.com.br:8080/ZopeOrg/
> ...you can see the affect.  On the H1s (About Zope, Spotlight On,
> the bullet.gif (the four orange squares in front) aren't in the
> They are assigned in the CSS with h1: before and content:
> url('bullet.gif').  It will only work with IE and Moz, but its
> won't hurt other browsers.
> >  (+) added footer bar as it was on the mockup
> >  (*) slogan -> 10pt bold
> >  (-) Removed html, body, etc. blocks in local_html at root. I
wonder why
> > it's here ? Is local_html technic the good way to play with ZPT ??
> > we prefer macro or something ?
> That's the way the CMF works.  It yanks the content out of the
<body> tag.
> >  (-) Remove "[more...]" button on titles of "Announcement",
"News", etc.
> > It's the same as left bar now (H1 is clickable). I also added a
> > "[more...]" link at bottom of section too. Code is much simpler
> >  (*) Re-organised "Top Ressources" section. Removed date (was not
> > here ???), added small sentence (today's top 5) and the ressources
list has
> > anoter format (minor changes)
> That whole right bar has been aching for some work.  Thanks!
> >  (*) Did a full cleanup of code for news items. It's a much more
usual look
> > now. Made some modifications to css (#newsarea)
> >  (o) Have a look to actions_bar. As it was removed from html
source, I'll
> > wait until it's back
> >  (o) Please don't use <font> nor direct <xxx style=""> inside your
HTML code
> >      1/ Use a specifier css class or style or  id
> >      2/ If there is no css definition for your style, declare and
use a
> > local css style (like in nzo Download section)
> Agreed.  I did it in a couple of places to avoid some conflicts with
> other people working on the stylesheets.  It's a bad practice, I
> have cleaned up afterwards.
> >  (o) Suggestion : I would remove the word "location" in
breadcrumb, and
> > would not display it at all on home page (would be only "Home"
link). Votes
> I put it in there because I thought other sites that used
> did it.  Can you check the web design patterns site and see what it
> It's ok if we decide to remove it.
> >  (o) local_css.css : I would like to remove specific parts of the
css from
> > main css file (and think about css of sitemap.html inside main css
> > example), and have a simple acquisition system like for
> Sounds good.
> >  (o) I wonder if the "[more...]" gif file is a good idea ? If we
use a gif,
> > let's make it visual (an arrow, or something like
> > http://www.welie.com/patterns/images/tog-outgoinglinks.gif )
> If we keep it, I'm fine with using this image in place of [more...]
> Let's get some votes on whether to use an image, text, or nothing
> [more...].
> > I hope I didn't forgot to mention a modification.
> >
> > The site looks fine to me on IE6, Mozilla, NS4.
> > NS4 just don't have horizontal grey bars under sections names (I
don't think
> > it's a problem).
> The only major disagreement that I have is concerning the base font
> We might have to move to a system where we let people have a member
> stylesheet that is included first.
> For instance, let's say we move all the font-size and font-family
> setting to a separate site_fonts.css file.  The one used for
> is one geared (sadly) towards IE and Windows on normal size screens.
> However, people can create a mystyles.css in their member area that
> override all CSS.  We can then find a way to make this visibile
> (e.g. the preferences screen).
> Although this is extra work, it might be less work than the holy war
> we'd engage in over font settings. :)
> --Paul
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