[ZWeb] NZO Alpha Announcement

Jeffrey P Shell jeffrey@cuemedia.com
Fri, 4 Apr 2003 15:32:44 -0700

On Friday, April 4, 2003, at 08:58  AM, Sidnei da Silva wrote:

> | >- You wrote something about linking the mailinglist navigation to
> | >lists.zope.org/ mail.zope.org. I think it's bad to have links in
> | >the menu directly go to other sites when the user doesn't expect
> | >it (with Zope Exits the user expects to leave the zope site).  Why
> | >not create a clear, nice looking subpage describing the various
> | >Zope mailinglist and how to use them, e.g. warn that zope@zope.org
> | >is a high-traffic list, that the lists are archived on the web,
> | >etc. That page could have a clear link to lists.zope.org. I think
> | >mailman 2.1 new templating system even uses ZPT (not sure), so it's
> | >even possible to give the mailman pages a zope.org look and feel
> | >(not very high priority, though).
> |
> | Another option is to use an extra icon for links that go offsite from
> | large link lists, and those links should always open in a new window.
> | If it's a subpage containing all off-site links, this isn't 
> necessary.
> Looks like there is consensus that opening new windows is not
> good. Will leave it as-is.

Please then, no links to zope.com for the Roadmap - which I see has now 
been fixed.

I appreciate Pieter's roadmap page - but does this need to be a Wiki?  
Now there are all these extra headers and toolbars and links and 
sub-sub-sub tables and question marks getting in the way of trying to 
ascertain the current Zope release information.  Too many header bars 
(the site bar and the wiki bar) feel like they're pushing information 
down on what wants to be a standalone page (evidenced by the very small 
table of contents, which shows up with NO NZO skin around it...).  But 
I guess there's some Wiki skin work still ongoing?  I don't know what 
can be done about this, but the page flow currently is just rather 

If the Roadmap page should remain a Wiki page, then maybe pages like 
this are good candidates for the giganto-wiki that Simon proposed a few 
months back.  I'm still leery of having the dichotomy of WikiSpace 
versus NormalContentSpace creating confusing navigation and duplicated 
content, but I'd rather have that than NormalContentSpace pierced by 
many little Wikis.

Finally, why is Plone on the Roadmap page?  Are we setting a dangerous 
precedent by putting third party things on there?  I think that the 
Products listing page should help people find links to Plone, ZWiki, 
Kontientor, etc, and the people behind those projects should update 
their own roadmaps and release plans in their own areas - mostly so 
they don't have to worry about updating yet-one-more-place.

> | >What about the wiki's? What's the current state of them? Are you
> | >planning to use CMFWiki or Zwiki?

> For now, were just converting everything to ZWiki. As Simon pointed
> out on Zope3-dev, the whole experience will be improved just by doing
> this, because the current wikis on Zope.org lack key features.

I was unaware that CMFWiki's capabilities had been folded back in to 
ZWiki, my mistake.

Erk.  Has the software been updated yet?  I'm getting lots of bugs when 
trying to make an alternate roadmap page.  It's not remembering what 
I'm editing the page as, and when DTML is there as an option (which I'm 
not purposefully selecting - it just gets reselected every time I click 
'edit'), I get an AttributeError, "runFitOn".

> | >> - Objects have a 'obsolete' workflow state, that will be used to 
> mark
> | >> old content and remove it on the next round of migration.
> | >remove it? are zope members given a long period of time to clean
> | >up their home dirs? (i don't think a period such as two weeks that
> | >is used on plone.org is appropriate for zope.org). Another solution
> | >is to make old content hard to find (e.g. moving it to old.zope.org
> | >or not searching it by default)
> |
> | We have to be careful about 'old.zope.org'.  We don't want to get too
> | dependent on that being around providing obscure functionality.   
> This
> | happened with the old Collector(s) on 'classic.zope.org'.
> No old.zope.org please.

I agree, from painful experience from last time we did this :).

> | On top of what Pieter pointed out, I have something else of my own: 
> the
> | ZSP page is in terrible shape on new.zope.org.  I don't know if I've
> | ever seen a version of it that I've liked.  What are the plans for 
> it,
> | and how can I help get it up to something comparable with what exists
> | on Zope.org now - but better (ability to filter/search ZSP's by 
> region,
> | for example)?
> I made a first try at it, http://dev.nzo.zope.org/Resource/ZSP
> This is a new product called CMFContentList, which makes configurable
> listings of objects. Next things I need to add are batching and
> searching. Let me know what you think.

There should be something separating the entries - either an HR type 
separator or alternate row colors.  Other than that, it looks fine.

> | Coming in as anonymous, I got a login error by clicking on "The Zope
> | Book" off of the front page (and in Safari, the login error came 
> across
> | as plain-text HTML instead of rendered).
> Ack! Safari seems to not be handling a content type header or 
> something.

And I'm running some sneaky betas anyways, not always the best policy