[ZWeb] NZO Alpha Announcement

Jeffrey P Shell jeffrey@cuemedia.com
Fri, 4 Apr 2003 18:27:19 -0700

On Friday, April 4, 2003, at 04:01  PM, Sidnei da Silva wrote:

>> I appreciate Pieter's roadmap page - but does this need to be a Wiki? 
>>  Now there are all these extra headers and toolbars and links and 
>> sub-sub-sub tables and question marks getting in the way of trying to 
>> ascertain the current Zope release information.  Too many header bars 
>> (the site bar and the wiki bar) feel like they're pushing information 
>> down on what wants to be a standalone page (evidenced by the very 
>> small table of contents, which shows up with NO NZO skin around 
>> it...).  But I guess there's some Wiki skin work still ongoing?  I 
>> don't know what can be done about this, but the page flow currently 
>> is just rather noisy.
> Yes, Limi is working on ZWiki skin beautification to get it ready for 
> 0.18.0.
> I agree with you that this roadmap page has way too many whistles. I 
> dislike table borders entirely.

I made an alternate layout that's just straight text, and all done in 
pure Structured Text - no HTML.  I really dislike the combination of 
the two, which I think many people fall back on because STX's rules are 
often unclear (I know I still get surprised too much when using it, and 
I've been using it for years and years now).


Oh, how I miss reStrucutredText's automatic table-of-content-generation 

>> If the Roadmap page should remain a Wiki page, then maybe pages like 
>> this are good candidates for the giganto-wiki that Simon proposed a 
>> few months back.  I'm still leery of having the dichotomy of 
>> WikiSpace versus NormalContentSpace creating confusing navigation and 
>> duplicated content, but I'd rather have that than NormalContentSpace 
>> pierced by many little Wikis.
> I think that a Roadmap page is a nice candidate for a Wiki, but 
> whatever is suggested would be fine for me.

Why a full Wiki on its own, just for the Roadmap?  So anyone can update 
it?  I see that as a valid want, but there's a lot of overhead just on 
the User Interface just to get a single editable page - particularly 
one that should have pretty good editorial control.    I think a small 
group of Zope.org editors can update a normal document just fine here, 
with less overhead on the software side and so on.  And since normal 
documents can have comments attached as part of the CMF framework, the 
community can still remind us to update, or add new information that 
the editors of the site can respond to.

I agree with Simon's (much) earlier vision of a unified Zope.org Wiki.  
I'm still not a big Wiki fan, but unifying the non-development Wiki's 
instead of having many tiny ones is better.  I still think a lot of 
what we may want (or may have wanted) Wikis for on the current Zope.org 
site can be satisfied with good editor setups and commentable pages.  
CMF's document system which doesn't require sudden switching to the ZMI 
makes editable pages easier.

If it's meant to just be a standalone document, I'd rather have a 
standalone document than an entire Wiki that exists purely to support 
that one page.  If we want it to be a Wiki page, then we should come up 
with a canonical content Wiki on the site and put it in there 

I'd be happy with either solution.