[ZWeb] Not another ___Nuke site, please

Ausum Studio ausum_studio@hotmail.com
Mon, 13 Jan 2003 19:18:32 -0500

----- Original Message -----
From: "robert rottermann" <robert@redcor.ch>
To: "Jeffrey P Shell" <jeffrey@cuemedia.com>; "Ausum Studio"
Cc: <zope-web@zope.org>
Sent: Monday, January 13, 2003 3:08 PM
Subject: Re: [ZWeb] Not another ___Nuke site, please

> > To Plone or not to Plone
>After having worked intensively with plone sites I did write an articel I
>published on DZUG which is CMF based. I'ts like going back to a long
>forgotten area.

>Plone is just so much better!

I think Plone's inner qualities are not in discussion here. Many talented
people have contributed to its development to create a useful piece of
software out of the CMF, and just because of that it is better (than
CMFDefault). I can't disagree to that.

What it's in discussion, up to the extent of what current nzo development
responsibles allow, is whether or not the new ZopeOrg should use Plone for
the sake of a faster deployment and future maintaining facilities, or not.
If the problem was reduced to that I'd say OK, but unfortunately nzo's
technology adoptions will be a reference point of what Zope and its Content
Management Framework is, and therefore will act as an endorsement of the
whole community (or at least ZC's on behalf of it) to the design decisions
of its developers.

But, is the whole community (or ZC ) willing to endorse a software that -in
Robert's words- "(is not) only a bunch of skins you can take or  leave" but
rather something that "does alter the way how things are done rather
profoundly", thus forcing to take the decision to "build a site (using)
plone only or not use it at all"?.  I'm one who says "I don't think so".
Experience has taught that any enterprise will need to custom-develop the
sooner than it would've wanted or expected, so there's no reason to let
people believe that Zope and CMF is all about an
eight-apartment-four-stories building that you can convert to four duplexes
by just removing some floors. We should be crystal clear at stating to
people "you can build your duplexes from scratch, using the best of breed
of our smart machinery and framework. We did that with our own portal".

My personal and humble belief is that as a community oriented to content
management, there's a lot of work to be done (in the CMS framework
territory) before we can say "this is the way to go" regarding an end-user
experience. (Moreover, chances are that for Zope to suceed as the finest OS
CM software available, we find inconvenient the fact of been associated to
an end-user portal app, because we could be compared -from a marketing
perspective- to the bunch of 'nukies'out there claiming to do all sort of
things, except serious content management.


>However I do not believe that plone is only a bunch of skins you can take
>leave. I does alter the way how things are done rather profoundly. You
>build a site to use plone only or not use it at all.
>I you would see an other plone site that does not show it's parentage look
>which is the business oriented brother of www.swisszope.ch