[ZWeb] Re: NZO, was Re: [Zope3-dev] Zope 3 branding

Jeffrey P Shell jeffrey@cuemedia.com
Fri, 31 Jan 2003 00:44:08 -0700

On Thursday, January 30, 2003, at 07:53  PM, Paul Winkler wrote:

> On Thu, Jan 30, 2003 at 06:46:39PM -0700, Jeffrey P Shell wrote:
>> What do you intend to do when you've "collected all valid proposals"?
> they're just there to be a reference point of what's  been
> proposed with some basic info on why each one is and is not suitable.
> i don't intend to "do" anything with them.
>> There's a project on Zope.org for New Zope.org.  These Wiki pages
>> should at least be there.
> er.. uh....  :(
> sorry about that.  i slapped it up on plone.org because
> 1) i didn't know about the "new" nzo wiki on zope.org. pure ignorance.

It wasn't ignorance.  Even I couldn't find it :)

> 2) it seemed the discussion was already taking place on plone.org, and
> i figured people with accounts on plone.org would already be
> logged in there.
> In retrospect, i should have looked around on zope.org, and
> plone.org might not be seen as "neutral ground",
> since the anti-plone faction are
> not likely to have accounts on plone.org and will either have
> to post anonymously or (shudder) register on plone.org.

My personal thoughts are that if this affects the NZO process and is 
really meant to contribute *anything* to it, it should be with the 
project.  But again - until today, few people knew where that project 
was.  :\

And selfishly, I just wanted one place to find out what was going on 
since I myself have so little time right now.

> I don't suppose there exists any kind of migration tool
> to copy an instance of whatever version of ZWiki is used
> on plone.org and put it in as whatever version is used
> by c.z.o.?
> alternatively, if anyone will volunteer to help, i will
> migrate it by hand ASAP and close the one i put on plone.org.
> or better, replace each page with a link to the zope.org one.
>>  It's good that you're doing this, but it's
>> now starting to feel like NZO is being pulled in even more directions.
> oh fudge, not at all what i intended.
> I was hoping that in a year when somebody says "why on earth didn't
> zope.org use Silva", we'd be able to say "we discussed that
> and here's why", or alternatively "because nobody put any effort into
> a silva proposal."

I wouldn't mind seeing this either.

>> I apologize if I'm coming off as a bit cranky.
> not at all, compared to some of the discussion on plone.org about
> this :-\
> As for wanting a decision - yes, i think we would all like this
> to be over and done with, but my impression is that Guido
> asked the community to decide, and the community is moving
> along at about the pace you'd expect :-p

> If it was announced that there was a BDFL or Zope Pope decision,
> that would certainly get things over with quicker...
> but i don't know whether people would like that more or less
> than a messy ad-hoc community decision process. Personally I don't
> care much either way, i just wanted to help facilitate the
> process given that it was put to the community.
> I should mention that IMO both Guido and Sidnei still have
> veto power over any community vote, since they're in charge
> of making it happen.
> at least I think they are.  Maybe others too, but i
> can't seem to find a definitve list - the one at
> http://www.zope.org/projects/nzo/ProjectTeam
> doesn't even mention Sidnei or Guido.

*sigh*.  That's not a surprise.  :\.  It seems a growing responsibility 
as webmaster is to nag people to keep their wiki pages up to date.  At 
the same time, it's nice to have some governmental control to try to 
get these project areas to be actually useful places for information.