[ZWeb] NZO Alpha Announcement

Jeffrey P Shell jeffrey@cuemedia.com
Thu, 27 Mar 2003 18:37:09 -0700

[quoting PieterB]
> - Please update the spotlight: 21 august 2001 doesn't look up to date

I still don't get why this article is the spotlight anyways.  Seeing 
this makes me thing of dev.nzo.etc.etc. as more mockup than real.

> - Copyright? There isn't a © before 2003 but I don't really
> like the 'All rights reserved'. The legal page links to Zope.com
> which seems to have a typo/error in their 'Legal notice'. Can I use
> zope.org's new design for my websites (not that I plan to), or will
> ZC sue me. I think the design/template should be ZPL or something
> similar, perhaps even the new default for Zope 2.7 websites. That
> would make it easier to use goodlooking/usable websites using Zope.


> - The contact link should link to a form, instead of using a mailto
> (mailto is bad, unless used for emailadresses). The form should
> give the user the oppurtinity to post to zope@zope.org for a
> zope-question, and to zope-web@zope.org for a zope-web question.
> Clearly state that the message will be sent to an e-maillist which
> is archived on the web.

Ooo.  I think this is good.  The current Zope.org feedback page still 
seems to confuse some users, as is evidenced by the amount of traffic 
this list sometimes receives that has to do with a particular product 
or just a general Zope question.  Giving users options as one of the 
form elements ("Question about Zope?  Problem with this web site?" for 
example) should cut down on the bad traffic.  I don't know though - 
messages have to be *clearly* stated, as most people seem to just hit 
"feedback form" and fill in the elements without looking at surrounding 
text.  I guess if the message shows up clearly after they submit the 
form, they'll read it (if it's clear and concise).

> - You wrote something about linking the mailinglist navigation to
> lists.zope.org/ mail.zope.org. I think it's bad to have links in
> the menu directly go to other sites when the user doesn't expect
> it (with Zope Exits the user expects to leave the zope site).  Why
> not create a clear, nice looking subpage describing the various
> Zope mailinglist and how to use them, e.g. warn that zope@zope.org
> is a high-traffic list, that the lists are archived on the web,
> etc. That page could have a clear link to lists.zope.org. I think
> mailman 2.1 new templating system even uses ZPT (not sure), so it's
> even possible to give the mailman pages a zope.org look and feel
> (not very high priority, though).

Another option is to use an extra icon for links that go offsite from 
large link lists, and those links should always open in a new window.  
If it's a subpage containing all off-site links, this isn't necessary.

> What about the wiki's? What's the current state of them? Are you
> planning to use CMFWiki or Zwiki?

I would imagine CMFWiki.  I still haven't really heard what the plan is 
on this - all Wiki's, new and old, valid and obsolete, etc, are moving, 
or is any attempt being given to clean them up?  If attempt is being 
given to clean them up, what is that effort and which ones is it 
touching?  I think the Project Wikis should always stay around and be 
separate from each other (and I still want to completely redo the 
fishbowl Proposals part as not-a-wiki).  If any plans are already made 
about what to do with the devsite stuff, I want to know.

>>  - Objects have a 'obsolete' workflow state, that will be used to mark
>>  old content and remove it on the next round of migration.
> remove it? are zope members given a long period of time to clean
> up their home dirs? (i don't think a period such as two weeks that
> is used on plone.org is appropriate for zope.org). Another solution
> is to make old content hard to find (e.g. moving it to old.zope.org
> or not searching it by default)

We have to be careful about 'old.zope.org'.  We don't want to get too 
dependent on that being around providing obscure functionality.   This 
happened with the old Collector(s) on 'classic.zope.org'.

On top of what Pieter pointed out, I have something else of my own: the 
ZSP page is in terrible shape on new.zope.org.  I don't know if I've 
ever seen a version of it that I've liked.  What are the plans for it, 
and how can I help get it up to something comparable with what exists 
on Zope.org now - but better (ability to filter/search ZSP's by region, 
for example)?

Coming in as anonymous, I got a login error by clicking on "The Zope 
Book" off of the front page (and in Safari, the login error came across 
as plain-text HTML instead of rendered).

Gave me a TypeError, "sequence index must be integer".  We should 
decide what to do about "Site Errors".  It's useful to see real errors 
while the site is in development, but many usability guides say that 
end users should never see the word "Error".

'new.zope.org' shouldn't show up as a project until its Wiki is up to 
date.  The first thing the front page of the wiki says is "this is 
horribly out of date, see this page for more", and the page it points 
to is a link to a couple of mailing list pages.  That's not inspiring.

http://dev.nzo.zope.org/news is odd, as there are (No Description) 
blocks on each item.  I'm guessing this has something to do with the 
more advanced Dublin Core data of CMF/NZO that doesn't exist in CZO.

"Community / Report Bugs" points to the ZopeOrg collector (where I 
probably should be putting all of these items, I guess?), but it should 
probably point to the main Zope collector, or to the root.  What are 
the plans to dress up collector.zope.org?

All Zope Exits links should open in a new window (preferably a window 
of the same name - <a target="zopeexits" ...>).

Those are the main things I saw.  There's also a lot of broken or 
missing content, it seems.  At what point is that stuff expected to be 
moved over so that it can be really tested, or should we be testing for 
that now?  Some examples:

- http://dev.nzo.zope.org/Resources/MailLists
- http://dev.nzo.zope.org/Resources/IRC
- http://dev.nzo.zope.org/Resources/ZSP

I think what we need, if it isn't asking too much, is a roadmap 
outlining the next couple steps.  Sorry if this has been posted 
elsewhere where I haven't seen it. Is there going to be another 
alpha/milestone before any beta?  What do we want to have done by then?

Now, with all that said, it's time to enjoy cheap beer night. :)