[ZWeb] http://zope.org/Documentation/Guides/

Chris Withers chris at simplistix.co.uk
Sat Aug 21 12:52:51 EDT 2004

Mark wrote:

>> Are the "guides" in that folder even linked to from anywhere?
> Yes. They are in more places (such as wikis) than anyone here knows 
> about. And that's exactly the problem.

I'd prefer to delete the crud, and fix anything resulting in complaints.
Seems preferable to me than just having the complaints ;-)

> Quick of off the top example:
> http://www.zope.org/Documentation/

That's one of the pages I think should just plain die as described in 
another mail. Looking at the site structure, the pages linked to from 
categories in the left nav don't really add anything other than a 
support burden. I'd prefer to see the categories as just unlinked bold 
text. I think that would add to the readability of the left-nav to boot.

> If you delete the docs then we will at the very least get lots of email 
> from
> people saying "where are the docs". Case in point being the CMF ZWACK 
> chapter
> the other day.

Exactly, that for me was great. And with cmf.zope.org too. We found 
where the links were and fixed them. Rather than just having outdated 
crud like cmf.zope.org lying around forever.

> I appreciate you think you are on a roll here but Zope.org 

I don't think I'm on a roll, I'm just acting on problems rather than 
talking about acting on problems ;-)

> has been a 
> mess for a long time now we have the time to take our time and actually 
> doing some planning.

I disagree. Zope.org has been a mess for far too long. It's embarassing. 
  Rather than talking about organising groups to discuss how the process 
of updating things should work and generating reams of red tape that 
will only be waded through by one or two people, I'd prefer to just see 
people pitching in as and when they can and slowly working towards a 
leaner site, that's easy to maintain and only contains relevent, 
up-to-date information in one place, that makes sense, and is marked as 
historical if it still needs to be around but is no longer the newest 

Been to python.org lately? ;-)

> By the way I'm having problems getting any page on Zope.org on the first 
> try?
> Any idea what's causing that?

Layering an immature version of an overly complex and extremely resource 
intensive framework onto an ancient site and then not maintaining it for 
a year ;-)

More technically, I'm afraid I don't know. I suffer the same 
frustrations but lack the time to dig deep enough to get anywhere 
solving them. This seems to be a common problem :-/

How about a Zope.org-fix-performance day in the vain of a bug day? I'm 
sure if we could get Shane, Chris M, a few of the Plone guys and maybe 
even Jim then we can crack the performance problems once for and for all!



Simplistix - Content Management, Zope & Python Consulting
            - http://www.simplistix.co.uk

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