[ZWeb] "Zope Exits"

Mark mark at zopemag.com
Tue Aug 24 05:49:02 EDT 2004

Hello all,

On Aug 24, 2004, at 11:24 AM, Chris Withers wrote:

> Mark wrote:
>>> I'm sorry you take offence at this, but unless you can say 
>>> otherwise, it is an accurate summary of your business model.
>> Your point is a simplification and not a representative at all of 
>> what we are trying to do with ZopeMag.
> Then what is?

I think that last email was long enough.

>> But my point that ZopeMag is the only Zope Magazine remains valid.
> So what? Simplistix is the only official ReportLab partner for Zope 
> projects, I don't see how being unique justifies free advertising...

In my opinion their is a huge difference between providing a ton of 
free documentation by our two Zope sites
and that as far as community value is concerned.

>> Looking at Zope Corp's business model Zope.org is designed to instill 
>> a want -- a want that they ideally serve.
> Well, from everything I've heard Rob Page say recently, that's not the 
> case...

I didn't hear that the way you did -- I guess.

>> Following your definition not even Zope would qualify as a Zope exit 
>> -- and that would be a shame!
> Zope Corporation? I'd say definitely not. They have plenty of ways to 
> excercise their control of the brand as a whole, which they are 
> already doing. Out of interest, if this is crucial to Zope.com, why is 
> Zope.com not a Zope Exit already?

I meant Zope.org would not qualify as a Zope Exit following your 

>> And by the way when a company evaluates a technology they typically 
>> will also look at the entire eco system which
>> includes questions like:
>> - Is local, reliable service available?
>> - What about Training?
>> - What about Documentation?
> I believe I'm well versed in egg sucking already, thankyou...

Really? That's nice to know. I'm not sure you understand what I'm 
getting at though. If you get a chance
pick up a copy of the "Death of Competition". May help you seperate the 
egg from the hen house, the farm, and breakfast.

>> If you could not earn at least a part of your living providing Zope 
>> based services would you be able to spend as much time with Zope and 
>> have such a vested interest in helping with the community site? I 
>> honestly doubt it. Not that you are not an honorable man :-)
> I dunno what you're driving at here, I would emphasise that I'm not 
> angling for a link in Zope Exits.

I was angling at the supposed non-commercial angle in general. I don't 
know where this weird shame comes from
in the Open Source world were commercially funded projects, entities, 
are supposedly less worthy than "pure 100%" community created software 
or services. This is bunk.

Zope Exits to me have always been about things worthwhile checking out. 
Not just a list of User Groups world-wide.
Honestly I think its unfair for 4 people to decide what belongs their. 
We should take Michael's Zope Exits page idea and
add a voting system so that the 10 most popular are displayed on the 
front page. This would allow for the following:

- Its certainly more democratic
- The list would fluctuate as sites become more or less valuable
- we no longer have to maintain the list

>> Zope.org is selling you man! (ok, maybe the site could be a better 
>> seller -- but we are all working on it).
> No, it isn't. My company is not currently listed anywhere on Zope.org, 
> except perhaps on my member page. I do what I do because I want to see 
> a better site as a whole.

And you do not make any money providing Zope based services? You do not 
have another motivation?
It -- doesn't matter I can see an angelic quality in you -- 
occasionally :-)



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