[ZWeb] Re: Grrr. zope.org wikis are evil.

Justizin justizin at siggraph.org
Mon Oct 9 15:32:55 EDT 2006

On 10/9/06, Jim Fulton <jim at zope.com> wrote:
> Sidnei da Silva wrote:
> > On Mon, Oct 09, 2006 at 02:00:24PM -0400, Jim Fulton wrote:
> > | I don't have any mystic power that allows me to understand any Zope
> > | application.  I am also not a CMF developer.
> >
> > That's something I never understood.
> >
> > It's not only a problem with Jim, but people that can understand the
> > most obscure issues about memory management or deep C-level hackery,
> > or insane operating system level APIs or and Linux kernel issues,
> > sometimes with 5-10 years of Python experience, just state that they
> > don't have enough knowledge to debug a random application.
> >
> > C'mon. There's not any magic going on there. The hardest issues you
> > will face are Acquisition and Page Templates. Sometimes you have to
> > just do it. Several times I've found myself in this situation. There's
> > nothing that can't be understood by stepping through pdb all the way
> > from BaseRequest to the guts of an application.
> >
> > I know it's tedious, and that it might take several tries until you
> > realize what's exactly going on. But it is doable. There's a
> > difference between 'I can't do it' and 'I don't want to do it'. Being
> > in the latter group is fine, but I would say it's highly questionable
> > for an experienced developer to put himself in the first group without
> > a reasonable excuse.
> It's not a question of debugging some isolated problem.  It's
> a question of making a change to a large system that has been fraught
> with problems.  A system that most people who work on zope.org
> don't want to touch.  A system that was abandoned by it's original
> author.
> Having said that, I said that I would be willing to work with someone
> familiar with the zope.org software yo update ZWiki.  No one has stepped
> forward yet. I wonder why.

Is there a reason you can't just see what happens when you bring up a
copy of zope.org with the latest ZWiki?  Is there a list of issues?  I
face this problem somewhat as well, though I can be blamed for most of
siggraph.org, some of it is legacy and it has taken me up to a year to
get some products out of the mix which were around before I started.

Usually when new versions of upstream code come out, I bring them up
in dev.siggraph.org, poke at anything flaky I can think of, and ask
people to try it out for a month or so.  Any time something is broken
until we get this working, it's a sad state of affairs IMO, but it's
better than being dead in the water.

Justizin, Independent Interactivity Architect
ACM SIGGRAPH SysMgr, Reporter

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