[Zope] Re: [ZCommerce] RE: Philip leaves Arsdigita (was: Re: [Zope]kerberos ? + LDAP + ecommerce + ZEO replication etc)

[Paul Everitt]

Walter Ludwick wrote:
> Hey, Albert:  I'm a newbie to the ZCommerce list (and to the Zope world in
> general), but this thread of yours has really piqued my interest.

Uhh, mine as well. :^)  It's an important, serious point.  Thanks for
chiming in.  Comments below.

> I've just concluded a project (a CMS for a group of federated websites with
> a kinda half-assed "eCommerce" component) in Zope, simply because ACS was
> too expensive for us at this point, and we needed a quick/ cheap win.  The

Was there anything about Zope (especially as a CMS), beyond quick/cheap,
that was a win?

> project has proven successful, and i believe we did indeed chose wisely;
> nonetheless, as we look at the major challenges to be addressed in the next
> phase of development (i.e. PERSONALIZATION), i don't see anything "on the

Can you explain personalization?  The CMF (formerly PTK) does some of
personalization, but I wonder what parts it doesn't address of
"personalization" as you see it.

> shelf" in the Zope world that comes close to addressing the needs, and the
> ACS looks increasingly attractive.
> 
> But i'm missing a lot of the background, and having a bit of trouble
> following this thread, so maybe you can tell me:  is it possible that we
> could port the ACS functionality into our Zope-based CMS as a "plug-in," and
> could this be the sort of business rationale that Digital Creations needs to
> hear in order to justify the expensive of a person-week to do the sort of
> analysis that you seem to be requesting?

There are a number of alternatives.  As you described, we could view ACS
as a requirements document and port it.  We could try to find a way to
make Zope a frontend for ACS' e-commerce, or vice versa.

I haven't heard much specifics about how this might work, so I can't
comment on it.

> It certainly seems to me that ACS is eating Zope's lunch in the market for
> "serious" eCommerce solutions - and now that the WorldBank is investing so

That's probably true.  eCommerce, as is obvious, hasn't been the place
we've chosen to compete.  But it's hard to be competitive in other areas
without some ecommerce story.

> much in the ACS through this "Gateway" project of theirs, with no
> corresponding investments in the Zope world, the trend can only worsen.  So
> it seems to this particular buyer in the market (small potatoes as i am)
> that incorporating ACS functionality into Zope, instead of just waiting for
> someone to happen along and fund its development from scratch, is the

Understand, of course, that this applies to *lots* of things.  And
saying that DC has to eat it out of hide is OK, but there's a limit to
how much we can apply that strategy to.

> smarter way -- maybe even the only way -- to make it happen.  Without
> industrial-strength eCommerce and all that personalization stuff that goes
> along with it and is so important to everyone these days, i'm afraid that
> Digital Creations may be relegating Zope to the prospect of diminishing
> returns in a market that will just have to expand without significant
> Zope/DC participation.  If this is what you've been trying to tell Chris
> McD, then i'm afraid i have to agree.

You're certainly right that, if Zope wants to be competitive in
eCommerce, then it needs an eCommerce story.  The story is a bit murkier
for competing in other areas, but it's likely that Zope should have at
least *some* production-class story for eCommerce.

For personalization, depends on you definition.  We might alread have
some of it.

But concerning the remedy...is it *truly* the case that DC has to own
this effort?  After all, many of you know more about eCommerce than us. 
We definately should participate, though.

--Paul