[Zope] is DTML a www standard?

[Paz]

Hello all,

Alan recently said:
>Zope and DTML syntax and usage is way too tied to python syntax to make a
.good standard anyway. I believe that the syntax derived from python coding
>is a fundamental limiting factor for Zope growth. A friendlier and more
>complete DTML tag structure would accellerate Zope aceptance by those that
>do not come from a Python background. Since Zope grew from Python and is
>primarily supported by Python pundits, I wouldn't expect to see much along
>these lines.

>Documentation out of the box is improving, but many products are documented
>with a "look at the code" mentality. This is an "old boys club" mindset
that
>says that once I know something, you should know it too.

Well, I am not a python-knowing person either, but I realize several things.
Zope IMHO is a big python hack. Its a nice one, but its still a hack. No
offense DC. I have the feeling that in one of my purely DTML coded pages, 30
lines is actually taking a multiplied value of that in the python that DTML
mimicks. Doing it in DTML constantly is stupid when a python script can do
the job. You'll see the differnce I think when your website is being pounded
away by a high ratio of clients to server power. I'm just learning python
now and I already notice a difference. You're probably just from the
publishing world like me and happen to have to do it yourself.

I agree with you about the documentation. It could be better, but the again,
it kinda expects you to have aa developers mindeset. The web-world is
becoming very cross-oriented and there are alot of non-developers trying to
script with abysmal results. Its time to learn the language.

Also keep in mind that GPLdom is not driven the way you would commercially.
You work too much in the corporate world to see it. I'd like to see
commercially driven documentation by people who make it their profession to
talk about it from an outside perspective. Root of the truth is, if Zope was
setup that way, it'd be a Microsoft product by now. Better keep it the way
it is so people with a devotion to the functionality rather than the
develop:sell ratio.

I am quite happy to see DC working for the CoreSession and extending the
WebDav. It's supposed to be a publishing solution, and its just that. Use of
DTML is better off for only massaging the output into stylization instead of
building core logic. Its not fair to ask a product to become better to make
up for your lack of knowledge. Its just unfortunate that I spend so much
time treading water with Zope, but once I picked up a python book, it's all
becoming clearer.

my half cent,
Paz