[Zope] Love Zope but want to avoid Python

Ausum Studio ausum_studio@hotmail.com
Thu, 13 Feb 2003 01:06:13 -0500


Have you tried "Dive into Python"?

http://diveintopython.org


Ausum


----- Original Message -----
From: "Herianto Tan" <htan@gmx.de>
To: <sean.upton@uniontrib.com>; <zope@zope.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 12:49 AM
Subject: Re: [Zope] Love Zope but want to avoid Python


> thank you for your explanation.
>
> The reason why I want to use Java in Zope is as follow:
> -It has huge community and I'm familiar with its library.
> -Many company invest in Java technology and there is a huge development
> using Java.
> -It has many good IDE which can be used freely.
> -I don't want to learn too many programming languages and be diverted
with
> other technology.
>
> I think, Python is great.
> But there are many stuffs which Java provides and it doesn't yet exist in
> Python.
> So, it was the main reason why I'm looking for alternatives to use Java
> within Zope.
>
> I've been exploring Zope for quite a while and my only drawback is to
learn
> Python.
> I love Zope from time to time and I feel, I must masters it soon.
>
> But your explanation gives some good points for me to master Python.
>
> thank you.
> heri
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <sean.upton@uniontrib.com>
> To: <htan@gmx.de>; <zope@zope.org>
> Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 1:03 PM
> Subject: RE: [Zope] Love Zope but want to avoid Python
>
>
> > Really, Python is Zope's Secret Weapon.  Ignoring that is to your
> > disadvantage.
> >
> > You can use Java in Zope, but only via Python.  Look at JPE, which is a
> > bridge between CPython and Java.  This would allow you to leverage
> existing
> > Java code and familiarity in Zope/Python.  I think I've heard of
someone
> > using this technique to write a custom catalog index using a Java-based
> > indesing framework.
> >
> > Frankly, though, all the advantages of Zope won't make sense if you try
to
> > use it in this way.  To take advantage of Zope's object persistence,
you
> > really need to be coding in Python; I don't think JPE will give you
enough
> > power to .  It is an awkward mix, except in certain circumstances.
> >
> > Most Java programmers have no problem with Python, since concepts are
> > similar in many ways.  If you are really into (finger) typing more than
> you
> > need to, I suppose you can stick with Java.
> >
> > Its funny, but I would think Java is a crutch...
> >
> > (a) Static typing introduces more potential for errors in casts than
the
> > potential for errors (not caught by a compiler) in a dynamically typed
> > language with test-first design.  Unit-tests and code-readability make
> > Python a hands-down winner.
> >
> > (b) Working in both worlds isn't that bad.  Many folks handle both Java
> and
> > Python skills just fine.
> >
> > (c) Java is a poor language for code-reviews, experimentation and such,
> > becuase there is more code to read, intent is not clear across
> team-members,
> > and you can't try out a snippet of code in interactive mode.  It only
> > doubles in complexity if you start to realize that (ouch!) you have to
> write
> > your unit tests in this same cumbersome language.  This means that
Python
> is
> > orders of magnitude faster for team projects and developing using
> > component-oriented methodologies that have any hope of scaling past 1
> > programmer.
> >
> > (d) Read http://www.infoworld.com/article/03/02/06/06stratdev_1.html
> >
> > (e) Read Bill Venners' 5 part interview with Guido
> > http://www.artima.com/intv/strongweak.html
> >
> > (f) Learning Python is easy, easy, easy, especially for a Java
programmer.
> > Similarities: assignment via reference, fully-object-oriented from the
> > start, rich class libraries.  Differences: Python supports mutliple
> > inheritance, interface contracts are not required in Python, but can
> > optionally be specified (and are in most good Zope products, like the
> CMF),
> > Python is dynamically typed, which means less casts and worrying about
> > type-checking (just focus on passing unit-tests instead).  Python can
be
> > learned interactively.  You are not going to face the same, or even 1/4
of
> > the same learning curve you took on when you first learned Java.  Buy
> > youself a copy of Beazley's Python Essential Reference, 2nd Ed, and go
> > through the official Python tutorial at: http://www.python.org/doc/ and
> you
> > should be in good shape.
> >
> > If you don't have a few hours to learn the ropes in Python, perhaps
Zope
> is
> > not really going to benefit you as much as it possibly could; if you
are
> > that committed to the Java platform, you might want to consider some of
> the
> > other app server alternatives out there.  If Zope has compelling
features
> > (and it has many) that are attractive enough, learning Python should
not
> be
> > the barrier for you.  If it is, you likely don't care about the
features
> > enough to justify the interest.
> >
> > Sean
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Heri [mailto:htan@gmx.de]
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 8:04 PM
> > To: zope@zope.org
> > Subject: [Zope] Love Zope but want to avoid Python
> >
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > i'm a java programmer for the last 3 years.
> > I'm very comfortable with Java Language now, and understand most of its
> > library, ettc..
> >
> > I like Zope very much and like its ZPT and many others.
> > But I have not much idea about Python and I don't want to spend much
time
> > 'learning python' just do do stuff with Zope.
> > As I feel more comfortable with Java, can someone suggest me a way to
use
> > ZOPE by using my Java Skill?
> >
> > thanks!!!
> >
> >
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>
>
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