Give it a rest + answers. (Re: [Zope] Re: Zope + Apache on Quad Debian machine)

[Chris Withers]

Dario Lopez-Kästen wrote:
> Unfortunaltey, that is the ways things work, and I think we all have to 
> prepare to be nice to those newbies too. 

I think we have a right to expect those newbies to be nice back ;-)

> Generally speaking, with the growing poularity of Zope-solutions, where 
> Plone and CPS being popular solutions more or less "hide" the technology 
> behind, we get a bunch of people that do not necessarily care about the 
> technology behind plone/cps, they just wnat things to work.

If that's the case, they should either be prepared to pay someone.

> Also, especially having the "marketing zope" discussions happening on 
> other lists, we need to come to terms with the fact that zope does not 
> exist in isolation from it's environment. Questions on the general Zope 
> list about issues and successes in deploying Zope, Zope performance 
> *ARE* legitimate questions on the list.

Yes, but when you point out more helpful forums to people and they just 
whine back, they deserve all the abuse they get, I'm afraid...

> So, questions and issues about threaded Pytohn apps are very likely  to 
> be related to Zope, and shoudl not be dismissed ad-hoc-ly, in spite of 
> the answer being "google is your friend: zope+multi+cpu"

Not sure I agree. If people are expecting free help, they should at 
least have the courtesy to do the ground work.

>>> http://www.zope.org/Members/glpb/solaris/report_ps
>>
>> Having chatted with both the author and the researcher of that paper, 
>> I don't remember the results being as clear-cut as you imply ;-)
>>
> having experienced this first hand, before the paper arrived (and it did 
> help me find the solution), I think I disagree :-)

I think we can agree that this isn't consistent for everyone, which 
kindof proves the point that other options might be best explored first ;-)

> I guess he was under the wrong impression that the zope-list was a 
> friendly and safe place to ask questions and get community support :)

For the vast majority of people, it is. If you're rude and lazy, then 
maybe it shouldn't be ;-)

> Checkov (or someone) said something along the lines of "good table 
> manners is not to not spill sauce on the table, but to not notice when 
> someone else does".

Visiting someone's house without an invitation and throwing sauce in 
their face is not something I think covered by that phrase...

cheers,

Chris

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