[Zope] Zopache = ZTK + Grok + ZMI

Christopher Lozinski lozinski at freerecruiting.com
Mon Aug 4 16:02:56 CEST 2014

On 8/4/14, 7:09 AM, Andreas Jung wrote:
> You are arguing and blathering every other year the same nonsense
> without any outcome. 
There has been a huge outcome.  I now recognize that grok and ZTK are a
human factors disaster.  It is way too complex for an ordinary mortal to
begin using. I was privileged to be able to watch it for many years and
figure out what to do with this mammoth piece of code.  Those of us who
do manage to use it, do not get simple user interfaces.  I still do not
quite understand Zope security.     Really the whole Grok/ZTK ecosystem
needs to be rewritten with an eye to Human Factors.   You need an
industrial engineer in charge, not a computer scientist. 

I have also increased my self confidence.  I am perhaps the only one of
the once numerous TTW developers to have mastered the Grok/ZTK
platform.  I am now able to do what I need.  The rest just faded away.  
That is quite an impressive accomplishment on my part.

I have a first release of Zopache running internally.

More importantly I now have a possible Beta user I met through this
mailing list, we
are in discussions on how to work together.  Mission accomplished. 
Thank you sir.

>Have we seen any contribution, any code from you side of the last decade?
Well I have written 90% of the ZTFY wiki.  And I wrote the entire
Zopache Wiki.
I laid out exactly what is needed to be done.   I gave huge end user
feedback to the mailing lists over the years.  Sadly people like you
quite ignored it, and the whole community consequently died.  Don't
blame me for that.  I did my part.

But your hostility on this mailing list has been so huge, that I am now
unlikely to release Zopache to open source.  In any case,
open source is the wrong model from a Human Factors point of view.  Then
they have to mess with last century's unix file system.  And they are
scared of no support.  People want a free hosted Zopache TTW.  Something
like PythonAnywhere.  And that is high on my list of things to do.  

Open Source is also the wrong model for getting people to invest their
time and effort in the project.  Unlike Linux there is not a huge user
demand.  Maybe two of us to contribute.  Maybe I need to give out shares
to anyone who wants to work on this project.  I have to figure out the

With Zopache running as a free supported hosted solution, even a
neanderthal like you could use it. 

I do appreciate your provoking an interesting conversation.  

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