[Zope] Zopache = ZTK + Grok + ZMI

Andreas Jung lists at zopyx.com
Tue Aug 5 18:04:17 CEST 2014

Hash: SHA1


Christopher Lozinski wrote:
> On 8/4/14, 7:09 AM, Andreas Jung wrote:
>> You are arguing and blathering every other year the same nonsense 
>> without any outcome.
> There has been a huge outcome.  I now recognize that grok and ZTK are
> a human factors disaster.  It is way too complex for an ordinary
> mortal to begin using. I was privileged to be able to watch it for
> many years and figure out what to do with this mammoth piece of code.
> Those of us who do manage to use it, do not get simple user
> interfaces.  I still do not quite understand Zope security.
> Really the whole Grok/ZTK ecosystem needs to be rewritten with an eye
> to Human Factors.   You need an industrial engineer in charge, not a
> computer scientist.
> I have also increased my self confidence.  I am perhaps the only one
> of the once numerous TTW developers to have mastered the Grok/ZTK 
> platform.  I am now able to do what I need.  The rest just faded
> away. That is quite an impressive accomplishment on my part.
> I have a first release of Zopache running internally.
> More importantly I now have a possible Beta user I met through this 
> mailing list, we are in discussions on how to work together.  Mission
> accomplished. Thank you sir.
>> Have we seen any contribution, any code from you side of the last
>> decade?
> Well I have written 90% of the ZTFY wiki.  And I wrote the entire 
> Zopache Wiki. I laid out exactly what is needed to be done.   I gave
> huge end user feedback to the mailing lists over the years.  Sadly
> people like you quite ignored it, and the whole community
> consequently died.  Don't blame me for that.  I did my part.
> But your hostility on this mailing list has been so huge, that I am
> now unlikely to release Zopache to open source.  In any case, open
> source is the wrong model from a Human Factors point of view.  Then 
> they have to mess with last century's unix file system.  And they
> are scared of no support.  People want a free hosted Zopache TTW.
> Something like PythonAnywhere.  And that is high on my list of things
> to do.
> Open Source is also the wrong model for getting people to invest
> their time and effort in the project.  Unlike Linux there is not a
> huge user demand.  Maybe two of us to contribute.  Maybe I need to
> give out shares to anyone who wants to work on this project.  I have
> to figure out the details.
> With Zopache running as a free supported hosted solution, even a 
> neanderthal like you could use it.
> I do appreciate your provoking an interesting conversation.

- -- 
Andreas Jung
andreas at andreas-jung.com

EuroPython 2014 Organization Team - Communications

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