[Zope3-dev] Axe DTML Document

[Casey Duncan]

So, let me jump in and sum up what I think you
(Martijn) are saying in the language of Files vs.
Documents...

Files are static representations of something
(rendered if you will). They may be HTML, PDFs, Word,
whatever. Now granted with the right tools, you can
"unrender" them and change them, but otherwise they're
pretty opaque.

Documents are bits of content arranged in some
structure, but without or with little inherent
representation. Such as XML or any DOMish thing. In
it's simplest form even plain text.

Here is my problem with this. The latter is entirely
too broad a definition. In a sense the ZODB is a
document in this manner, as is an entire file system,
perhaps even the Web itself could be characterized
this way on a certain level (a stretch I know).

What has come out here, which has pulled my head away
from the forest, so as to see the trees, is that we
are not defining a meta type or a class really for a
document. We are defining an interface to which all
documentish things can implement.

So let's not quibble about symantics. Martijn, you've
got yourself some pretty fancy ideas about what
content is. Lalo has a different perspective. I just
want some consistency whether the thing is fancy or
not.

Lets define the interface for a basic piece of
"content": living, DOMish, blobish or Amish. From
there we can derive the dumb-as-a-stump File object,
for all those fine "representative" "document" types.
And then look at how we can extend it to best embody
structured DOMish content. 

To me those are almost "Meta Documents". XML is really
just a representation of the stored DOM structure, a
view if you will. The fact that you can losslessly
convert between XML and the internal structure is the
key. So a user can think if it as a document, when in
fact it is much more than that, it is more like a mini
database in and of itself.

Now Martjin may feel that no one should "store" html
as such (or at least they should avoid it). I would
agree in principle, but in practice people will
generate content using tools that output HTML thinking
they are doing it the "web way".

OTOH, If Zope 3 can easily create an environment where
storing content in HTML, although wholly supported, is
clearly not the best course, then everyone will win.
Because the less enlightened will, by following the
path of least resistance, at least in theory gain
enlightenment. 

I know I have been steadly gaining enlightenment as
the tools I work with become more sophisticated. The
brilliant thing about Zope, is of course that I can
help make the tool more sophisticated (and hopefully
better) along with myself, as well as vice-versa.
That's the theory at least 8^)

We're never going to define "content" let alone
"document" adequately for everyone, so let's quit now.
Let's just define an interface first for the simplest
kinds of content objects (since that's easier) and
build from there.

-Casey

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com