[Zope3-dev] Re: [Zope3-checkins] CVS: Zope3/lib/python/Zope/App/OFS/Services/SmtpService/Views - __init__.py:1.1 configure.zcml:1.1

[Stephan Richter]

> Zope is already having an indentity crisis, though (besides the Content
> Management vs. Application Server). In a sense, we already *have* a generic
> protocol framework in place, that handles HTTP, FTP, WebDAV, and friends.

Well, Mark Pratt used to say "Zope is an Operating System for the Web" and 
that is how I see it too. That leaves all identity crisis arguments behind I 
think.

> When Zope 3 began, there was talk about scraping Medusa (& asyncore) in
> favor of a more robust solution; many mentioned Twisted, yet it was then
> told that a similar server framework was being developed (Shane H.?), and
> that was that. 

Yes, Shane and I worked in March on a replacement for Medusa and it is in use 
since then. The architecture is really nice and pluggable. In fact, the FTP 
and HTTP server that come with Zope, work out of the box simply with the 
Filesystem. We have not replaced the old asyncore module, since it was too 
much work, but that is just a task pending.

Shane and I looked at Twisted and decided that it was not suitable for the 
Zope 3 default servers (I do not want or plan to explain the reasonings 
here). We also decided that we want to build only a few servers, but make 
them behave and work really good - "deeper is better than wider" was the 
motto.
BTW, this is the reason we threw out the SMTP and POP3 server was that we did 
not want to bloat Zope at that point. 

> Do we even need an integrated Web server to begin with?
> We're told it makes it easy to set up "out of the box".

Yes, and you give the reason why. I for example do not even have Apache or any 
other Web Server installed on my Laptop and it would really enoy me if I 
would have to just to run Zope. 

>  Well, I'd like to
> setup a Web mail system with IMAP & SMTP support then, plus iCalendar too!

Yep, that will happen eventually.

> I guess what I'm saying is that if we _do_ in fact want to see Zope grow
> 10X, then perhaps we do need to expose Zope as extremely extensible
> platform. 

Sure. 

> I'd still like to see Twisted become built into the Z3 core, to
> prepare for future protocols and be equipped with a more robust network
> foundation in general. I see that being key to being able to survive.

Well, Twisted works well with Zope 3 now. However, there are obvious technical 
differences once you look into the requireemnts of Twisted Applications 
versus Zope, ZODB and ZEO. 

Commenting on another thread: I have somewhere some notes describing how to 
write a protocol. Let me see whether I can still find them and write them up. 
It won't happen in the next two weeks, but after that I might find some time 
to do that.

Regards,
Stephan
-- 
Stephan Richter
CBU Physics & Chemistry (B.S.) / Tufts Physics (Ph.D. student)
Web2k - Web Software Design, Development and Training