[Zope3-dev] Re: [ZWeb] nzo: just for inspiration

[Tonico Strasser]

Steve Alexander wrote:
> 
>> I still take issue with the notion that CSS tables are more
>> "standards-based" than HTML tables.  HTML tables existed as a standard
>> before CSS tables.  The difference is that CSS tables provide a way to
>> express intent instead of manipulating pixels.  It's just a different 
>> standard.
> 
> 
> I've been thinking about issues of Liskov substitutability and Zope 3 
> recently. Last night, it occured to me that there is a similar pattern 
> of substitutability with using tables to express layout.
> 
> Using an HTML table when you don't have something that is tabular in 
> nature is a lot like using the subclassing/subtyping features of a 
> language because you want to reuse implementation while not keeping the 
> promises of the supertype.
> 
> In this case, the supertype makes a promise that the cell contents are 
> part of a structure of rows and columns, and have some commonality with 
> other cells in the same column and other cells in the same row.
> 
> Using tables in HTML to achieve the goal of manipulating pixels relies 
> on the accident of how a graphical browser chooses to lay out tables.
> 
> 
> The HTML standard says 
> http://www.w3.org/TR/1998/REC-html40-19980424/struct/tables.html
> 
> ----
> Tables should not be used purely as a means to layout document content 
> as this may present problems when rendering to non-visual media. 
> Additionally, when used with graphics, these tables may force users to 
> scroll horizontally to view a table designed on a system with a larger 
> display. To minimize these problems, authors should use style sheets to 
> control layout rather than tables.
> ----

OK, this recomendation says that tables should not be used *purely* for 
layout. So, if I use tables without graphics (I think they're talking 
about graphics used for sizing cells, not logos or icons, etc.) for 
basic layout, this is not against that recomendation.

""" The HTML table model has evolved from studies of existing SGML 
tables models, the treatment of tables in common word processing 
packages, and a wide range of tabular layout techniques in magazines, 
books and other paper-based documents.
""" B.5.1 Design rationale

I also want to note that the recomendation is from 1998, the year when 
XML 1.0 was published. Today we can easily create special skins for 
small devices.

Tables aren't evil, are they?

Link tip:
   How to Determine Browser Specs:
   http://www.o2b.net/articles/browser-specs/

Tonico

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