[Zope3-dev] Re: Brainstorming page architecture, pagelets, portlets, etc.

[Tonico Strasser]

Jean-Marc Orliaguet wrote:
> Tonico Strasser wrote:
> 
>> Jean-Marc Orliaguet wrote:
>>
>>> Tonico Strasser wrote:
>>>
>>>> Jean-Marc Orliaguet wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> - for the styling, have a pluggable interface to let the layout 
>>>>> renderer write CSS class names and let portlets, pagelet register 
>>>>> their own CSS styles (that should be done through a renderCSS() 
>>>>> method, not through a flat CSS document)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This reminds of a CSS library for Python I've seen some time ago. I 
>>>> wonder how such a CSS renderer will deal with CSS hacks[1].
>>>>
>>>> [1] <http://cthedot.de/cssutils/>
>>>> [2] <http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=CssHack
>>>>
>>>> Tonico
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi!
>>>
>>> Personally I strictly use no hacks, since most of them are meant to 
>>> make it possible to use the exact same HTML code in many situations 
>>> and let the browser handle the negociation/browser detection logic 
>>> (NS4, IE, text-based browser, hidden boxes, PDA, etc...).
>>
>>
>>
>> But I have to deal with CSS hacks every day. Browsers are not perfect 
>> yet. Here ist an example were I *have to* use some hacks to fix 
>> browser bugs: <http://www.webproducer.at/flexible-layout/>
>>
>> I agree completly with you that avoiding hacks is the best practice, 
>> but sometimes you can't.
>>
>> Tonico
> 
> 
> 
> Hi! layout rendering in CSS is a tricky issue. It works fine for simple 
> layouts (3 columns), but if you have a portal with dynamic content and 
> more advanced layouts ('pagelets' for instance) - then tables are the 
> safest if not the only choice. Nothing prevents you from using a 
> tableless renderers though. I am doing advanced layouts that CSS cannot 
> cope with.

Using tables or not comes down to personal opinion or needs.

> But again you can move the selection of a layout renderer to 
> Zope because trying to solve everything on the browser side is a fight 
> lost in advance.

I don't know how to imagine a layout renderer.

> If you look at the softwares used by on-line newspapers 
> they bet on the safest choice, i.e. tables.

Wired.com, aol.com, mozilla.org, ... are table-less ;)

> It is a matter of being 
> pragmatic and not being too much focused on being semantically correct 
> all the time.

We (our company) need to satisfy accessibility requirements. Semantic 
coding is part of this job.

> Anyway the idea of having several layout renderers somehow 
> puts and end to the debate since it makes it possible to choose between 
> different options.

Sounds interesting.

Tonico