AW: [Zope3-dev] Pagelets and UI (was: IsarSprint topics - Zope 3application components)

[dev at projekt01.ch]

Joe Geldart wrote:
> Betreff: [Zope3-dev] Pagelets and UI (was: IsarSprint topics 
> - Zope 3application components)
>
> > You can declare pagelets in every instance.
> > The user (principal) can sort them and enable or disable.
> > 
> 
> Sorry to be blunt, but that sounds hideous from a usability
> perspective.
> Usually a specific order is desired (even across pagelet 
> declarations in
> multiple configuration files.) Our (Netalley Networks') pagelets allow
> this through the 'weight' property on the pagelet directive. Do your
> pagelets/tiks have something similar?
> 
> Regarding my comment that they're horrible from a usability
> perspective.
> We use our pagelets to render the entire page (including the logo and
> navigation) so that the content and flow order on a page can 
> be chosen.
> This is important for CSS and accessibility reasons. 
> ECMAScript cannot be
> relied upon in all(any?) user agents and we don't wish to 
> require it at
> such a low level. Your system's UI sounds better suited for portlets
> rather than pagelets. We envisage at some point in the future 
> a portlet
> system built as a pagelet, but we recognise that they are 
> *very* different
> use-cases and neither is satisfied by the other.
> 
> I believe we'd benefit from having the Tiks *portlet* system
> built as a
> pagelet that admins can include in various page regions using just the
> pagelet directive in their ZCML. This, I feel, would allow us 
> to meet both
> sets of use-cases and would put each technology in its rightful place.
> Pagelets aren't suited to doing portlets, portlets aren't 
> suited to doing
> pagelets.
> 
> Regards,
> --
> Joe Geldart, Senior Partner
> Netalley Networks LLP
> http://www.netalleynetworks.com
> 

Ok, you are right,
we built a portlet system or how do you call them.

This portlets can be placed in a instance (annotation) 
like a marker (object). This marker (object) has additional
information for the view (page template).

It has nothing todo wit the layout itself. It let you just
place additional information in a selected instance fro the
view.

Is there a real naming convention on this names like 
portlets, pagelets somewhere?

I was the meaning portlerts are just a fancy naming 
declaration from IBM for java standalone application windows?

Your pagelets system sounds like a enhancement or a replacement
for Zope3 widgets. 

What does this pagelet system diffferent then rendering widgets 
in a customizeable order? 

And how can I render a view A on a folder A different then a 
view A on a folder B.
Where folder A and folder B are a instance of the same class?

Is there a mechanism built in for to render views independent 
on interfaces? I mean just customizeable on instances?

Perhaps we can workout a portlet which is useing pagelets?
Or better we implement our portlet system in a generic way.
As a kind of marker objects where we can place eveery where
in Zope object instances. Then you can place a marker object
in a instance which contains additional datas for pagelets
or other adapters.

Are you on the IsarSprint? I think we can workout a nice
portlet (instanc marker) and pagelet system there.

But this whould need some basic work on the local presentation
service and implement jim's proposal about views as adapters.
I think thats a basic step in this direction.

Then we can also try to built some menu with levels like
jim proposed with SubItems:
 _______
|       |
|  Add  |
|_______|___
   |        |
   | folder |  
   |________|
   |        |
   | image  |  
   |________|  

Such a subitem could also be a portlet information. But 
that's another part of my ideas and i'm not shure if it's
fit to the Zope3 concepts right now.

I hope we find the time to discuss some ideas at Munich.

Regards 
Roger