[Zope3-dev] Re: Bug 358/359, 367 fixed

[Paul Everitt]

Chris Withers wrote:
> Roger Ineichen wrote:
> 
>> There is no reason to have different managment interfaces
>> like you propose as general. Then the Zope3 application server will never
>> contain a "built in CMS for endusers" like Plone.
> 
> 
> Who says it should? I really think this is a very bad idea to aim for, 
> as that's exactly howthe Z2 ZMI started out and exactly why it has the 
> problems it does to day.
> 
> Concentrate on building a ZMI for Zope 3 that enables developers like 
> you and me to easily build CMS'es, rather than trying to build one CMS. 
> That's Z3's sweet spot from evrything I've read...

AFAIK, both of these statements describe the original Zen that started 
Zope 3 and remain as the guiding principles.  I'll describe some more 
bullet points that reflect my understanding, and find out from the 
Powers That Be(tm) if I have it wrong:

1) Zope 3 isn't an user application, it is a system for building 
end-user applications (as Chris said).

2) Zope 3 is focused on components developers.  After that, it is 
focused on Site Managers.  After that, "Site Scripter".  Much, much 
after that, Content Authors.

3) Zope 3 has *a* UI that is the default, but this isn't *the* UI. 
Rotterdam is just a starting point.

I think this third point has mutated into a different status quo. 
There's a feeling that Rotterdam should be central, like the ZMI was. 
I'm not sure if there is total consensus on this point.

If Rotterdam *is* meant to be central (e.g. documented in books, thus 
meaning it shouldn't change radically), then we have some thinking to 
do.  What is the relationship b/w Rotterdam and the CPS 3000 (or Silva, 
or Plone) UI?  If we expect most people to look at Zope 3 via an 
application's UI, how (or should) that UI relate to Rotterdam?

IMO, we should focus Rotterdam on the set of audiences and tasks that we 
expect to be not covered by CPS/Silva/Plone/etc. 3000.  Stuff like 
configuration.  Lowest common denominator.

I realize that this point is unlikely to find broad consensus.  We'll 
probably need a papal edict.  Once we have the edict and get answers on 
the above, we can build the right UI...and, stop disagreeing. :^)

>> SiteScripter SiteDesigner SiteDeveloper ComponentDeveloper SiteManager 
>> WorkflowDesigner System Administrator
> 
> 
> I think the above are the only people who are event close to beign "Zope 
> 3"'s targetr audience. All others will come in and use something akin to 
>  "Plone for Z3"...
> 
>> I'm even not happy to see such flat management interface in real CMS
>> application, but that's another part.
> 
> 
> Indeed, stay focused, make Z3's ZMI useful for Z3 users, rather than 
> trying to make it useful for Z3's users' users ;-)

Good lord, I'm about to say something amazing..."I agree with Chris." :^)

--Paul