[Zope3-dev] Re: tracking satellite project's trunks

[Martijn Faassen]

Benji York wrote:
> Christian Theune wrote:
>> Same here. I'm feeling like I'm not yet understanding what the trunk
>> will be used like.
> 
> I'm wondering if we need to maintain a Zope 3 project with any code in 
> it at all (or nearly so).  Could "Zope 3" just be a buildout with a 
> configuration that creates a "Zope 3 application" with a bunch of stock 
> components.

Christian said we should wax philosophical and since this one of my 
favorite activities I will belatedly do this. :)

It is instructive to look at TurboGears. They were the pioneers of 
egg-based distribution and used cool words like 'megaframework' to 
market the concept of various libraries being integrated into one 
framework. Django in contrast spreads memes like "yeah, megaframeworks 
are nice, but we're INTEGRATED". So we could market Zope 3 as "the 
integrated mega-framework". :)

TurboGears is different from Zope 3 in that most of its component parts 
are libraries developed by independent communities. This is less the 
case for Zope 3, though some of its constituent parts are similar (ZODB 
for instance). As time progresses we might eventually see more smaller 
communities form around smaller parts, but we'll see. If I read Jim 
right, we should be careful about splitting up the community 
prematurely, so let's all keep it on this list for the time being. :)

TurboGears is also different from Zope 3 in that there is an actual 
turbogears package out there. This contains the code that glues the 
libraries together into a more coherent experience. With Zope 3 the 
responsibility for a coherent experience is diffused over numerous 
packages, though one can argue that zope.component and zope.interface 
play the most important roles here.

It's interesting to consider Grok in this light too. Grok tries to 
encapsulate various patterns of Zope 3 and offer them in a more 
convenient to use form. In this, it might be somewhat similar to the 
role the turbogears core package plays, but of course only to people who 
actually use Grok. :)

Regards,

Martijn