From gns24 at cam.ac.uk  Wed Jul  2 13:16:38 2003
From: gns24 at cam.ac.uk (Graham Stratton)
Date: Wed Jul  2 07:16:46 2003
Subject: [ZPT] Including a variable which may exist in a tag
Message-ID: <A652E326-AC7E-11D7-B3C4-003065BAD7F0@cam.ac.uk>

I have been trying to create a input tag as follows:

<input type="text" value=variable>

where variable may or may not exist - if not then value="" or no value 
tag would both be fine.  In DTML I could write:

<input type="text" value="&dtml.missing-variable;">

In a page template I'd like to write something like:

<input type="text" val:attributes.missing="value variable">

but can't find any such device.  Is there any elegant way of doing this 
in a template?

Many thanks,

Graham


From lists at elvix.com  Wed Jul  2 14:33:09 2003
From: lists at elvix.com (=?ISO-8859-15?B?R2VpciBC5mtob2x0?=)
Date: Wed Jul  2 07:31:15 2003
Subject: [ZPT] Including a variable which may exist in a tag
In-Reply-To: <A652E326-AC7E-11D7-B3C4-003065BAD7F0@cam.ac.uk>
References: <A652E326-AC7E-11D7-B3C4-003065BAD7F0@cam.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <643645126.20030702133309@elvix.com>

On  Wed, 2 Jul 2003 12:16:38 +0100 GMT (..13:16 where i live(GMT+2) )
Graham Stratton asked the ZPT mailinglist about the following:
  
> I have been trying to create a input tag as follows:

> <input type="text" value=variable>

> where variable may or may not exist - if not then value="" or no value 
> tag would both be fine.

tal:attributes="value variable | nothing"
ought to work

:)

--
Geir B?kholt


From jean at upfrontsystems.co.za  Wed Jul  2 18:04:57 2003
From: jean at upfrontsystems.co.za (Jean Jordaan)
Date: Wed Jul  2 11:14:52 2003
Subject: [ZPT] How do I preserve HTML comments in TAL ?
Message-ID: <3F02F499.90004@upfrontsystems.co.za>

Hi all

How do I write this in a page template?

"""
<style type="text/css">
<!--
@import url(/emss/files/feko2.css);
-->
</style>
"""

I want to make the path ('/emss/...') dynamic, but this escapes the
angle-brackets:

<style type="text/css" tal:content="string:<!-- ... -->"/>

and this doesn't execute the TAL:


"""
<style type="text/css">
<!--
<x:tal replace="string:@import url(${here/...});" />
-->
</style>
"""

Is there a way I'm missing?

-- 
Jean Jordaan
http://www.upfrontsystems.co.za


From lists at elvix.com  Wed Jul  2 20:05:52 2003
From: lists at elvix.com (=?ISO-8859-15?B?R2VpciBC5mtob2x0?=)
Date: Wed Jul  2 13:03:59 2003
Subject: [ZPT] How do I preserve HTML comments in TAL ?
In-Reply-To: <3F02F499.90004@upfrontsystems.co.za>
References: <3F02F499.90004@upfrontsystems.co.za>
Message-ID: <329892678.20030702190552@elvix.com>

On  Wed, 02 Jul 2003 17:04:57 +0200 GMT (..17:04 where i live(GMT+2) )
Jean Jordaan asked the ZPT mailinglist about the following:
  
> Hi all

> How do I write this in a page template?


> I want to make the path ('/emss/...') dynamic, but this escapes the
> angle-brackets:

> <style type="text/css" tal:content="string:<!-- ... -->"/>

does this perhaps work ?
<style type="text/css" tal:content="structure:string:<!-- ... -->"/>

--
Geir B?kholt


From jean at upfrontsystems.co.za  Thu Jul  3 10:04:54 2003
From: jean at upfrontsystems.co.za (Jean Jordaan)
Date: Thu Jul  3 03:14:48 2003
Subject: [ZPT] How do I preserve HTML comments in TAL ?
In-Reply-To: <329892678.20030702190552@elvix.com>
References: <3F02F499.90004@upfrontsystems.co.za>
	<329892678.20030702190552@elvix.com>
Message-ID: <3F03D596.1000604@upfrontsystems.co.za>

> does this perhaps work ?
> <style type="text/css" tal:content="structure:string:<!-- ... -->"/>

Yes, yes, yes :)  Thanks. For the record -- the first colon is a typo.
It should be:

   <style type="text/css" tal:content="structure string:<!-- ... -->"/>

-- 
Jean Jordaan
http://www.upfrontsystems.co.za


From charlie at begeistert.org  Fri Jul  4 19:04:51 2003
From: charlie at begeistert.org (Charlie Clark)
Date: Fri Jul  4 12:12:05 2003
Subject: [ZPT] Question on using metal-slots for menus
Message-ID: <CAQPVTNH2Z4W1T5141UTUSFDCP6ZXR.3f05a5a3@gormenghast>

Dear list,

I've been working with Zope on and off for nearly a year and am quite comfortable with ZPT now. However, 
my initial site was done in DTML (it was easier to get into and meet the deadline with at the time) and 
I'm now in the process of migrating it all to ZPT. Much of the work has been done already so that I just 
have DTML templates calling ZPT's. 

I have just started working with METAL but have so far been unable to work out the best way of having 
context-based menus. My website's content is essentially static with a lot of RDBMS calls (through ZPT) 
so I think I should be okay with a single page_macro and slots. What I'm struggling with is sub-menus. I 
have just been through the list archive but have not seen anything on this.

Currently I have something like this:

<html metal:define-macro="page">
<head></head>
<body>
<a href="/search">Search</a><br>
<a href="/register">Register</a><br>
<a href="/about">About</a><br>

<div metal:define-slot="content">Welcome to my website</div>

</body>
</html>

What is the best way of providing folder-specific sub-menues for /search, /register and /about?

I initially tried using extra-slots like
<span metal:define-slot="search_navi" tal:omit-tag=""></span>
But found I couldn't define a macro in a page which uses master_page/macros/page - it seems any macros 
defined in ZPTs which use the page macro are not available. While I think I understand this: everything 
is discarded that is not in a slot, I was confused that I couldn't do this in search/index_html

<div metal:fill-slot="search_navi">
	<span metal:define-macro="navi">
	Normal search<br>
	Advances searcg<br>
	</span>
</div>

and call this macro by acquisiton from sub-folders.

So I have currently gone for using <tal:content="structure here/search_navi | nothing"> in my master_page 
and having a mini-ZPT in the appropriate folder. While this works, it isn't exactly elegant.

Am I missing a major point? What are suggested ways of doing this which would allow me to overwrite the 
master_page page_macro?

Thanx for your suggestions

Charlie Clark



From fmartins at hetnet.nl  Sat Jul  5 00:57:03 2003
From: fmartins at hetnet.nl (Fernando Martins)
Date: Fri Jul  4 17:54:26 2003
Subject: [ZPT] Question on using metal-slots for menus
In-Reply-To: <CAQPVTNH2Z4W1T5141UTUSFDCP6ZXR.3f05a5a3@gormenghast>
Message-ID: <LPBBLICABBLMEDAGGKOFOECECPAA.fmartins@hetnet.nl>

Charlie Clark wrote:
...
> I have just started working with METAL but have so far been
> unable to work out the best way of having
> context-based menus. My website's content is essentially static
> with a lot of RDBMS calls (through ZPT)
> so I think I should be okay with a single page_macro and slots.
> What I'm struggling with is sub-menus.

FWIW, it seems you want a sub-templating system, i.e., two levels of macros:

/master_page
/search/sub_master_page
/search/index_html
/register/sub_master_page
/register/index_html
...

/master_page:
<html metal:define-macro="page">
<head></head>
<body>
<a href="/search">Search</a><br>
<a href="/register">Register</a><br>
<a href="/about">About</a><br>
<div metal:define-slot="sub_menu">sub menu options</div>
<div metal:define-slot="content">Welcome to my website</div>
</body>
</html>


/search/sub_master_page:
<metal:block define-macro="sub_page"
<html metal:use-macro="master_page/macros/page">
<head></head>
<body>
<p metal:fill-slot="sub_menu">
	Normal search<br>
 	Advanced search<br>
</p>
<div metal:fill-slot="content" metal:define-slot="middle_man">
Welcome to my website
</div>
</body>
</html>
</metal:block>


/search/index_html:
<html metal:use-macro="here/sub_master_page/macros/sub_page">
<head></head>
<body>
<p metal:fill-slot="middle_man">
Welcome to my website<br>
Here Comes the Real content
</p>
</body>
</html>


The trick here is to visualise text being replaced in the right order.

<div metal:fill-slot="content" metal:define-slot="middle_man">

Your index_html page fills in middle_man and sub_master_page in turn fills
in content. Note that middle_man could be named content; you don't need a
different name.

I don't know about performance in real life. It's also a bit clumsy because
you have to carry reduntant HTML around if you want to benefit from an HTML
visual editor. It also looks complex if you only have a simple sub-menu
system.

Another alternative, would be to have a secondary master page, just with a
collection of macros (a macro for each sub-menu) and your index_html, etc.
pages, would be

<html metal:use-macro="here/master_page/macros/page">
<head></head>
<body>
<div metal:fill-slot="sub_menu" tal:omit-tag="">
<span metal:use-macro="here/second_master/macros/search_menu"></span>
</div>
<p metal:fill-slot="content">
Welcome to my website<br>
Here Comes the Real content
</p>
</body>
</html>

HTH,
Fernando


From fmartins at hetnet.nl  Sun Jul  6 17:42:56 2003
From: fmartins at hetnet.nl (Fernando Martins)
Date: Sun Jul  6 10:40:16 2003
Subject: [ZPT] Question on using metal-slots for menus
In-Reply-To: <20030705145853.2156.1@wonderland.1057393069.fake>
Message-ID: <LPBBLICABBLMEDAGGKOFIECNCPAA.fmartins@hetnet.nl>

From: Charlie Clark
> > FWIW, it seems you want a sub-templating system, i.e., two levels of
> > macros:
> >
> > /master_page
> > /search/sub_master_page
> > /search/index_html
> > /register/sub_master_page
> > /register/index_html
>
> Actually I want to avoid that.

Yeah, I'm not sure I understand exactly what is your problem.

>
...
> An alternative would
> to have a macro inside a navigation template and call that in the slots.
>
> /master_page
> <html metal:define-macro="page">
> <head></head>
> <body>
> <a href="/search">Search</a><br>
> <div metal:fill-slot="search_navi">
> <span metal:use-macro="here/search_navi/macros/search_navi"></span></div>
> <a href="/register">Register</a><br>
> <a href="/about">About</a><br>
>
> <div metal:define-slot="content">Welcome to my website</div>
>
> </body>
> </html>
>
> /search_navi
> <html>
> <head></head>
> <body>
> <span metal:define-macro="search_navi"></span>
> </body>
> </html>
>
> I think this should work but it is still far from perfect.

Hmm, you can't do a fill-slot before doing a use-macro (see master_page).
But I also can't understand what you are trying with this example.

Another possibility to have sub-menus would be to put all the sub-menus in
the master_page. The HTML elements for each sub-menu would be inside a
define-slot. Each page using this master_page would do an empty fill-macro
for the non-relevant sub-menus, so that only the relevant sub-menu would
survive. Not elegant but simple.

So far, to build the sub-menus you have:

1) Put them in snippets of HTML stored in each in the respective sub-folder;
each sub-folder page would have to include it explicitly with a
tal:replace="structure here.snippet". This was the approach I thought you
were following.

2) To avoid repeating this inclusion in each page, you factor it into a
sub-template in each sub-folder. All the folder pages use this template, not
the master_page. That's what I suggested initially.

3) You put the sub-menus in the master_page and eliminate those you don't
need in each page.

Other options?

>
> By the way I've never come across tal / metal :block before. Is
> this just a
> way of reducing the number times of tal/metal has to be typed?
>

Not really (at least I don't think that's a good practice). They are used
when you can't use a div. See this recent thread:

http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope/2003-June/137345.html


Regards,
Fernando


From dieter at handshake.de  Mon Jul  7 01:59:32 2003
From: dieter at handshake.de (Dieter Maurer)
Date: Sun Jul  6 19:07:58 2003
Subject: [ZPT] Question on using metal-slots for menus
In-Reply-To: <CAQPVTNH2Z4W1T5141UTUSFDCP6ZXR.3f05a5a3@gormenghast>
References: <CAQPVTNH2Z4W1T5141UTUSFDCP6ZXR.3f05a5a3@gormenghast>
Message-ID: <16136.43476.522128.736784@gargle.gargle.HOWL>

Charlie Clark wrote at 2003-7-4 18:04 +0200:
 > ...
 > <html metal:define-macro="page">
 > <head></head>
 > <body>
 > <a href="/search">Search</a><br>
 > ...
 > What is the best way of providing folder-specific sub-menues for /search, /register and /about?

When they should appear in the above page, you just generate them
with a "tal:repeat" probably from a folder property.


Dieter

From charlie at begeistert.org  Mon Jul  7 15:56:13 2003
From: charlie at begeistert.org (Charlie Clark)
Date: Mon Jul  7 08:53:36 2003
Subject: [ZPT] Question on using metal-slots for menus
In-Reply-To: <16136.43476.522128.736784@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
References: <CAQPVTNH2Z4W1T5141UTUSFDCP6ZXR.3f05a5a3@gormenghast>
	<16136.43476.522128.736784@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
Message-ID: <20030707145613.5981.7@wonderland.1057563456.fake>


On 2003-07-07 at 00:59:32 [+0200], you wrote:
> Charlie Clark wrote at 2003-7-4 18:04 +0200:
>  > ...
>  > <html metal:define-macro="page">
>  > <head></head>
>  > <body>
>  > <a href="/search">Search</a><br>
>  > ...
>  > What is the best way of providing folder-specific sub-menues for 
>  > /search, /register and /about?
> 
> When they should appear in the above page, you just generate them with a 
> "tal:repeat" probably from a folder property.

Yes, I've decided that navigation items should generally be manageable 
objects. But I think I can avoid that in the current site using 
<metal:use-macro> and acquisition. I'm not sure whether I'll follow 
Fernando's suggestion and do all the definition in the master_page and use 
explicitly fill-slots or make use of my folder hierarchies and acquisition. 
Or maybe a mixture of both?

Charlie

From exteam6 at yahoo.co.in  Tue Jul  8 10:10:21 2003
From: exteam6 at yahoo.co.in (=?iso-8859-1?q?Exteam?=)
Date: Tue Jul  8 04:10:58 2003
Subject: [ZPT] plone styles in zpt macros file
Message-ID: <20030708081021.51541.qmail@web8101.in.yahoo.com>

hi,
i have installed plone in my linux box which installed
zope.
now i have a folder abc in root (/abc).
i have a ZPT macros file in abc starting with 
the first  line as:
--div metal:define-macro="my_macro1"--

now i want to call plone's header & footer files
written in dtml. these files are stored in the
/portal_skins/plone_templates .
how do i call them in my ZPT macros file?
i had used 

--div tal:content="structure
here/standard_html_header"--

to call the header.it actually calls the header, but
gives style sheet errors in the page like 
"document.all.content.style is not null or an object".
More over it doesn't display any of the content
present in the ZPT macros file.
But in the same way another dtml method in the same
directoy called check_status does the same job.
ie calls the same header file using the following
statement
"--dtml-var standard_html_header--".
It works perfeclty here.
what is the problem? why doesn't it work in  the ZPT
file?
Please help me
thanks
exteam

________________________________________________________________________
Send free SMS using the Yahoo! Messenger. Go to http://in.mobile.yahoo.com/new/pc/

From dieter at handshake.de  Tue Jul  8 21:16:28 2003
From: dieter at handshake.de (Dieter Maurer)
Date: Tue Jul  8 15:04:01 2003
Subject: [ZPT] plone styles in zpt macros file
In-Reply-To: <20030708081021.51541.qmail@web8101.in.yahoo.com>
References: <20030708081021.51541.qmail@web8101.in.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <16139.2684.202339.990337@gargle.gargle.HOWL>

Exteam wrote at 2003-7-8 09:10 +0100:
 > i have installed plone in my linux box which installed
 > zope.
 > now i have a folder abc in root (/abc).
 > i have a ZPT macros file in abc starting with 
 > the first  line as:
 > --div metal:define-macro="my_macro1"--

What a funny syntax...

  Usually, it looks like "<div ...>".

 > now i want to call plone's header & footer files
 > written in dtml. these files are stored in the
 > /portal_skins/plone_templates .
 > how do i call them in my ZPT macros file?
 > i had used 
 > 
 > --div tal:content="structure
 > here/standard_html_header"--
 > 
 > to call the header.it actually calls the header, but
 > gives style sheet errors in the page like 
 > "document.all.content.style is not null or an object".

That looks like javascript errors...

Have you had a look at the generated HTML source?

 > More over it doesn't display any of the content
 > present in the ZPT macros file.

Who is "it"?

 > But in the same way another dtml method in the same
 > directoy called check_status does the same job.
 > ie calls the same header file using the following
 > statement
 > "--dtml-var standard_html_header--".
 > It works perfeclty here.
 > what is the problem? why doesn't it work in  the ZPT
 > file?

I do not know. Beside the funny syntax (which should not work),
there is no smoking gun here ...


Dieter

From charlie at begeistert.org  Tue Jul  8 23:06:30 2003
From: charlie at begeistert.org (Charlie Clark)
Date: Tue Jul  8 16:03:54 2003
Subject: [ZPT] Problems with namespaces and acquisition: where is here?
Message-ID: <20030708220630.3379.13@wonderland.1057652783.fake>

Thanx to Dieter and Fernando I've come up with a working navigation 
essentially using <tal:condition> to replace <dtml-if> but with all the 
advantages of ZPT and much more maintainable. I've got one hitch, however, 
which must have something to do with acquisition.

Here's a stripped-down version of my master_page template:

<html metal:define-macro="page">
<head>
<title tal:content="here/title"></title>

<body>
<h1 tal:content="here/title"></h1>

<span metal:define-slot="content">

</body>
</html>

Now when I call this macro from a page template using

<html metal:use-macro="here/master_page/macros/page">

<div metal:fill-slot="content"><p>some content</p></div>

</html>

I do *not* get the title of the page template as the page title and 
heading. But I do get the title of folder in which the page template is in. 
I'm obviously being bitten by acquisition but I don't quite understand why.

Any pointers?

Charlie

From evan at 4-am.com  Tue Jul  8 16:37:55 2003
From: evan at 4-am.com (Evan Simpson)
Date: Tue Jul  8 16:38:15 2003
Subject: [ZPT] Re: Problems with namespaces and acquisition: where is here?
In-Reply-To: <20030708220630.3379.13@wonderland.1057652783.fake>
References: <20030708220630.3379.13@wonderland.1057652783.fake>
Message-ID: <3F0B2BA3.9020207@4-am.com>

Charlie Clark wrote:
> <title tal:content="here/title"></title>
> 
> I do *not* get the title of the page template as the page title

That's because "here" is the template's access context, not the template 
itself.  Try this:

<title tal:content="template/title"></title>

Cheers,

Evan @ 4-am



From charlie at begeistert.org  Tue Jul  8 23:45:20 2003
From: charlie at begeistert.org (Charlie Clark)
Date: Tue Jul  8 16:42:42 2003
Subject: [ZPT] Re: Problems with namespaces and acquisition: where is here?
In-Reply-To: <3F0B2BA3.9020207@4-am.com>
References: <20030708220630.3379.13@wonderland.1057652783.fake>
	<3F0B2BA3.9020207@4-am.com>
Message-ID: <20030708224520.5352.14@wonderland.1057652783.fake>


On 2003-07-08 at 22:37:55 [+0200], Evan Simpson wrote:
> That's because "here" is the template's access context, not the template 
> itself.  Try this:
> 
> <title tal:content="template/title"></title>

ah, works now.

so I have "template", "here", "container" and "root" (moving outwards from 
the ZPT?).

This isn't very clearly explained in the Zope book which is otherwise 
pretty good on ZPTs.


thanx

Charlie

From evan at 4-am.com  Tue Jul  8 16:49:08 2003
From: evan at 4-am.com (Evan Simpson)
Date: Tue Jul  8 16:49:14 2003
Subject: [ZPT] Re: Problems with namespaces and acquisition: where is here?
In-Reply-To: <20030708224520.5352.14@wonderland.1057652783.fake>
References: <20030708220630.3379.13@wonderland.1057652783.fake>	<3F0B2BA3.9020207@4-am.com>
	<20030708224520.5352.14@wonderland.1057652783.fake>
Message-ID: <3F0B2E44.8000508@4-am.com>

Charlie Clark wrote:
> so I have "template", "here", "container" and "root" (moving outwards from 
> the ZPT?).

More or less, although "here" and "container" are often the same object.

> This isn't very clearly explained in the Zope book which is otherwise 
> pretty good on ZPTs.

The built-in names section of Appendix C gives a one-line summary that 
might help:

http://www.zope.org/Documentation/Books/ZopeBook/2_6Edition/AppendixC.stx

Cheers,

Evan @ 4-am


From exteam6 at yahoo.co.in  Thu Jul 10 06:23:37 2003
From: exteam6 at yahoo.co.in (=?iso-8859-1?q?Exteam?=)
Date: Thu Jul 10 00:24:13 2003
Subject: [ZPT] plone styles in zpt macros file
In-Reply-To: <16139.2684.202339.990337@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
Message-ID: <20030710042337.53745.qmail@web8103.mail.in.yahoo.com>

hi Dieter,
replace -- with < & >,
then it doesn't look funny.
thanks
exteam
 --- Dieter Maurer <dieter@handshake.de> wrote: >
Exteam wrote at 2003-7-8 09:10 +0100:
>  > i have installed plone in my linux box which
> installed
>  > zope.
>  > now i have a folder abc in root (/abc).
>  > i have a ZPT macros file in abc starting with 
>  > the first  line as:
>  > --div metal:define-macro="my_macro1"--
> 
> What a funny syntax...
> 
>   Usually, it looks like "<div ...>".
> 
>  > now i want to call plone's header & footer files
>  > written in dtml. these files are stored in the
>  > /portal_skins/plone_templates .
>  > how do i call them in my ZPT macros file?
>  > i had used 
>  > 
>  > --div tal:content="structure
>  > here/standard_html_header"--
>  > 
>  > to call the header.it actually calls the header,
> but
>  > gives style sheet errors in the page like 
>  > "document.all.content.style is not null or an
> object".
> 
> That looks like javascript errors...
> 
> Have you had a look at the generated HTML source?
> 
>  > More over it doesn't display any of the content
>  > present in the ZPT macros file.
> 
> Who is "it"?
> 
>  > But in the same way another dtml method in the
> same
>  > directoy called check_status does the same job.
>  > ie calls the same header file using the following
>  > statement
>  > "--dtml-var standard_html_header--".
>  > It works perfeclty here.
>  > what is the problem? why doesn't it work in  the
> ZPT
>  > file?
> 
> I do not know. Beside the funny syntax (which should
> not work),
> there is no smoking gun here ...
> 
> 
> Dieter 

________________________________________________________________________
Send free SMS using the Yahoo! Messenger. Go to http://in.mobile.yahoo.com/new/pc/

From fred at zope.com  Fri Jul 11 16:42:41 2003
From: fred at zope.com (Fred L. Drake, Jr.)
Date: Fri Jul 11 15:43:22 2003
Subject: [ZPT] sequence unpacking syntax in TAL
Message-ID: <16143.4913.131888.558298@grendel.zope.com>


This is a proposal to extend TAL to support sequence unpacking for the
tal:define and tal:repeat attributes.

The additional syntax would allow setting multiple values from a
single expression:

  <div tal:define=
       "userid, host  python:context.email_address.split('@', 1)"
       >

If context.email_address has the value 'jim@zope.com', this would set
the TAL variable userid to 'jim' and host to be set to 'zope.com'.
This could also be used to decompose more interesting values from
database queries or other sources.

By extension, this should be useful with tal:repeat loops as well:

  <tr tal:repeat=
       "userid, name, email, favcolor  context/user_info"
       >
    <td tal:content="userid"> user id </td>
    <td><a href="mailto:address"
           tal:attributes="href string:mailto:$email"
           tal:content="name"> user name </a></td>
    <td>Favorite color:
        <span tal:replace="favcolor"> color name </span> </td>
  </tr>

Does this seem generally useful to everyone?  Comments and suggestions
are welcome (as are patches!).


  -Fred

-- 
Fred L. Drake, Jr.  <fred at zope.com>
PythonLabs at Zope Corporation

From evan at 4-am.com  Fri Jul 11 16:01:37 2003
From: evan at 4-am.com (Evan Simpson)
Date: Fri Jul 11 16:01:46 2003
Subject: [ZPT] sequence unpacking syntax in TAL
In-Reply-To: <16143.4913.131888.558298@grendel.zope.com>
References: <16143.4913.131888.558298@grendel.zope.com>
Message-ID: <3F0F17A1.2010300@4-am.com>

Fred L. Drake, Jr. wrote:
> This is a proposal to extend TAL to support sequence unpacking for the
> tal:define and tal:repeat attributes.

Looks workable.  I suggest that the unpack list should work even if 
there aren't as many names as elements in the sequence, that is:

 >>> name1, name2 = seq[:2]

It might be nice to allow a catchall variable for the sequence tail.  To 
emphasize the unpacking-nature (and to make parsing easier), we might 
want to use delimiters instead of commas, as in tal:define="[name1 name2 
*other] seq".

By analogy with this, we could also provide limited dict "unpacking" for 
keys that are valid variable names (common case in my experience), like 
tal:define="{key1 key2} mapvar".

Cheers,

Evan @ 4-am


From dieter at handshake.de  Mon Jul 14 01:14:45 2003
From: dieter at handshake.de (Dieter Maurer)
Date: Sun Jul 13 18:52:24 2003
Subject: [ZPT] sequence unpacking syntax in TAL
In-Reply-To: <3F0F17A1.2010300@4-am.com>
References: <16143.4913.131888.558298@grendel.zope.com>
	<3F0F17A1.2010300@4-am.com>
Message-ID: <16145.55765.904899.54943@gargle.gargle.HOWL>

Evan Simpson wrote at 2003-7-11 15:01 -0500:
 > Fred L. Drake, Jr. wrote:
 > > This is a proposal to extend TAL to support sequence unpacking for the
 > > tal:define and tal:repeat attributes.
 > 
 > Looks workable.  I suggest that the unpack list should work even if 
 > there aren't as many names as elements in the sequence, that is:
 > 
 >  >>> name1, name2 = seq[:2]
 > 
 > It might be nice to allow a catchall variable for the sequence tail.  To 
 > emphasize the unpacking-nature (and to make parsing easier), we might 
 > want to use delimiters instead of commas, as in tal:define="[name1 name2 
 > *other] seq".
 > 
 > By analogy with this, we could also provide limited dict "unpacking" for 
 > keys that are valid variable names (common case in my experience), like 
 > tal:define="{key1 key2} mapvar".

Didn't we want to keep TAL as simple as possible?
Wasn't out motto: simple (and explicite) is beautyful.


Dieter

From charlie at begeistert.org  Mon Jul 14 16:17:54 2003
From: charlie at begeistert.org (Charlie Clark)
Date: Mon Jul 14 09:16:36 2003
Subject: [ZPT] sequence unpacking syntax in TAL
In-Reply-To: <16145.55765.904899.54943@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
References: <16143.4913.131888.558298@grendel.zope.com>
	<3F0F17A1.2010300@4-am.com>
	<16145.55765.904899.54943@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
Message-ID: <20030714151754.478.3@wonderland.1058188455.fake>


On 2003-07-14 at 00:14:45 [+0200], Dieter Maurer wrote:
>  > By analogy with this, we could also provide limited dict "unpacking" 
>  > for keys that are valid variable names (common case in my experience), 
>  > like tal:define="{key1 key2} mapvar".
> 
> Didn't we want to keep TAL as simple as possible?
> Wasn't out motto: simple (and explicite) is beautyful.

While I can understand tuple unpacking in TAL working just as in Python I 
must agree with Dieter that TAL should be kept as simple as possible. It's 
become second nature to me to write PythonScripts to work with TAL.

Looking at the supplied examples:

  <div tal:define=
       "userid, host  python:context.email_address.split('@', 1)"
       >

This seems highly contrived and unrepresentative and not the kind of TAL I 
would like to leave for anyone to have to figure out.

By extension, this should be useful with tal:repeat loops as well:

  <tr tal:repeat=
       "userid, name, email, favcolor  context/user_info"
       >
    <td tal:content="userid"> user id </td>
    <td><a href="mailto:address"
           tal:attributes="href string:mailto:$email"
           tal:content="name"> user name </a></td>
    <td>Favorite color:
        <span tal:replace="favcolor"> color name </span> </td>
  </tr>

While this makes more sense I had to do a double-take as to why it is 
tal:repeat and not tal:define. I think I would have problems with this and 
I don't see any significant advantage over
<tr tal:repeat results context/user_info>
<td tal:content="results/userid">
</tr>

The namespace remains clear because it is explicit and all we have is some 
additional typing.

If <tal:define="a, b, c, d 1, 2, 3, 4"> is to be allowed then I do not 
agree with Evan's suggestion for new syntax for what would be a special 
case but 
<tal:define="(a, b, c, d) (1, 2, 3, 4)"> should be allowed for legibility. 
Unpacking errors due should be presented as such with no catchalls: you 
have to know what you're doing with tuple-unpacking and there is no need to 
duplicate Python functionality.

Just my thoughts.

Charlie

From evan at 4-am.com  Mon Jul 14 11:29:32 2003
From: evan at 4-am.com (Evan Simpson)
Date: Mon Jul 14 11:29:44 2003
Subject: [ZPT] Re: sequence unpacking syntax in TAL
In-Reply-To: <16145.55765.904899.54943@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
References: <16143.4913.131888.558298@grendel.zope.com>	<3F0F17A1.2010300@4-am.com>
	<16145.55765.904899.54943@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
Message-ID: <3F12CC5C.2000909@4-am.com>

Dieter Maurer wrote:
> Didn't we want to keep TAL as simple as possible?
> Wasn't out motto: simple (and explicite) is beautyful.

Indeed, but I like to explore ideas such as this one thoroughly before 
deciding to invoke simplicity.  You may have noticed that I've come up 
with, and participated in blue-sky discussion of, some pretty wacky 
ideas that never made it into ZPT ;-)

On the other hand, useful constructs such as '|'-paths and 
'?'-interpolation weren't part of the original spec, but have proved 
useful enough to justify inclusion, so I like to keep an open mind.

Cheers,

Evan @ 4-am


From tom at westlong.com  Mon Jul 14 19:23:02 2003
From: tom at westlong.com (Tom Nichols)
Date: Mon Jul 14 20:22:47 2003
Subject: [ZPT] Opening a PageTemplate from a Python Script
Message-ID: <002301c34a67$4193fb90$6400000a@ralph>

I want to open Page Template page from a Python Script that sets
starting values for input tags on the page. It seems like I need to make
those values part of the page's request object and use tal:attributes
statements in the input tags on the page to set value attributes.  I
don't know how to call the page from my Python Script and set values
that will be available in the request on the page.  I would appreciate
help with that and would especially appreciate any examples. 

 

If this request should be posted to a different list, I would appreciate
the suggestion of an appropriate list. 

 

Thanks, 

 

Tom

-------------- next part --------------
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From robert at redcor.ch  Tue Jul 15 07:29:24 2003
From: robert at redcor.ch (robert)
Date: Tue Jul 15 00:30:06 2003
Subject: [ZPT] Opening a PageTemplate from a Python Script
In-Reply-To: <002301c34a67$4193fb90$6400000a@ralph>
References: <002301c34a67$4193fb90$6400000a@ralph>
Message-ID: <200307150629.25176.robert@redcor.ch>

just call your template as if it were a method.
Example:
Template called calculateForm
<body tal:define="result options/result | nothing;">
	<form action="calculateSum">
		<input type="text" name="a" >
		<input type="text" name="b" >
		<input type="text" tal:attributes="value result">
	</form>
</body>
You can  see here how to get the value from the "options" namespace.

The script calculateSumsum :
it has two parameters a,b
sum=int(a)+int(b)
#call the template, 
# assign the parameter result the calculated sum
return calculateForm(result=sum)

Robert

Am Dienstag, 15. Juli 2003 02:23 schrieb Tom Nichols:
> I want to open Page Template page from a Python Script that sets
> starting values for input tags on the page. It seems like I need to make
> those values part of the page's request object and use tal:attributes
> statements in the input tags on the page to set value attributes.  I
> don't know how to call the page from my Python Script and set values
> that will be available in the request on the page.  I would appreciate
> help with that and would especially appreciate any examples.
>
>
>
> If this request should be posted to a different list, I would appreciate
> the suggestion of an appropriate list.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> Tom

-- 
mit freundlichen Gr?ssen

Robert Rottermann
www.redCOR.ch


From chrisw at nipltd.com  Tue Jul 15 13:38:37 2003
From: chrisw at nipltd.com (Chris Withers)
Date: Tue Jul 15 07:36:53 2003
Subject: [ZPT] zope3-dev proposal on changing implicitly calling
References: <3EF2EAF7.8010901@cat-box.net> <3EF33B30.6030208@nipltd.com>
	<3EF33B43.1050303@cat-box.net>
	<20030624143850.GA9036@flo.in.nuxeo.com>
Message-ID: <3F13E7BD.3070104@nipltd.com>

(sorry for being late on the followup, been on holiday)

Florent Guillaume wrote:
> In article <3EF75763.4040301@nipltd.com> you write:
> 
>>eg, I want:
>>
>>context/somefunc()/something/etc
>>
>>...so I write:
>>
>>define="x context/somefunc"
>>replace="x/something/etc"
> 
> 
> To be honest, this sucks. I've always wanted to write
> 
>    context/somefunc/something/etc
> 
> and have TALES realize that somefunc, being a method, is callable and
> couldn't possibly have a 'something' attribute or key.

How do you differentiate when somefunc would be called and when it wouldn't?

What parameters would somefunc be called with?

What would happen if somefunc was callable and took one parameter?

What would happen if somefunc was callable and took more or less than one parameter?

cheers,

Chris


From chrisw at nipltd.com  Tue Jul 15 13:42:30 2003
From: chrisw at nipltd.com (Chris Withers)
Date: Tue Jul 15 07:40:44 2003
Subject: [ZPT] zope3-dev proposal on changing implicitly calling
References: <3EF2EAF7.8010901@cat-box.net> <3EF33B30.6030208@nipltd.com>
	<3EF33B43.1050303@cat-box.net> <3EF75763.4040301@nipltd.com>
	<3EF756F2.9040501@cat-box.net>
Message-ID: <3F13E8A6.7030604@nipltd.com>

Steve Alexander wrote:
> Are you talking about TALES in general, or zope page templates in 
> particular?

What does the TALES spec say about the concept of a path segment being callable?

> Fine. For page templates in Zope, I think Zope should take 
> responsibility for deciding what is callable and what is not, not TALES.
> 
> For TALES in other applications, I think the path expression handler for 
> that application should decide what is callable and what is not, not TALES.

Yup, this makes sense...

> I think should should still be able to write such things in page 
> templates in Zope.

What things?

> The proposal came out of wanting to make calling callables in the middle 
> of a path expression work the same as calling callables that appear at 
> the end of an expression.

What makes that a good idea?
What makes it a bad idea? ;-)

> I think the difference in behaviour is a 
> misfeature.

Hmmm... the main worry I'd have, and I'm pretty sure it's why it's built like it 
is, is the worry about making it too 'automagical' (yuk! I hate that word...)
See my reply to Florent...

> In Zope 3, this misfeature will be corrected. 

How? Where was the discussion?

>> I think it's nice that non-programmers don't have to understand 
>> function calling. It's something hard as a concept to introduce to 
>> people who may never need to understand it...
> 
> I agree.

...but I worry about really badly confusing them because it appears they don't 
have to understand function calling when actually they do...

Chris


From fg at nuxeo.com  Tue Jul 15 16:14:57 2003
From: fg at nuxeo.com (Florent Guillaume)
Date: Tue Jul 15 09:15:03 2003
Subject: [ZPT] zope3-dev proposal on changing implicitly calling
In-Reply-To: <3F13E7BD.3070104@nipltd.com>
References: <3EF2EAF7.8010901@cat-box.net> <3EF33B30.6030208@nipltd.com>
	<3EF33B43.1050303@cat-box.net>
	<20030624143850.GA9036@flo.in.nuxeo.com>
	<3F13E7BD.3070104@nipltd.com>
Message-ID: <3F13FE51.20808@nuxeo.com>

Chris Withers wrote:
> Florent Guillaume wrote:
>> To be honest, this sucks. I've always wanted to write
>>
>>    context/somefunc/something/etc
>>
>> and have TALES realize that somefunc, being a method, is callable and
>> couldn't possibly have a 'something' attribute or key.
> 
> 
> How do you differentiate when somefunc would be called and when it 
> wouldn't?

It would always been called.

> What parameters would somefunc be called with?

None.

> What would happen if somefunc was callable and took one parameter?

TypeError.

> What would happen if somefunc was callable and took more or less than 
> one parameter?

TypeError.

Florent


-- 
Florent Guillaume, Nuxeo (Paris, France)
+33 1 40 33 79 87  http://nuxeo.com  mailto:fg@nuxeo.com


From chrisw at nipltd.com  Wed Jul 16 09:03:50 2003
From: chrisw at nipltd.com (Chris Withers)
Date: Wed Jul 16 03:03:55 2003
Subject: [ZPT] zope3-dev proposal on changing implicitly calling
In-Reply-To: <3F13FE51.20808@nuxeo.com>
References: <3EF2EAF7.8010901@cat-box.net> <3EF33B30.6030208@nipltd.com>
	<3EF33B43.1050303@cat-box.net>
	<20030624143850.GA9036@flo.in.nuxeo.com>
	<3F13E7BD.3070104@nipltd.com> <3F13FE51.20808@nuxeo.com>
Message-ID: <3F14F8D6.9050707@nipltd.com>

Florent Guillaume wrote:
>> What parameters would somefunc be called with?
> 
> 
> None.
> 
>> What would happen if somefunc was callable and took one parameter?
> 
> 
> TypeError.
> 
>> What would happen if somefunc was callable and took more or less than 
>> one parameter?
> 
> 
> TypeError.

Hmmm... provided that's really well documented, and remains the same, it sounds 
okay.

I'm just ultra worried about getting into the same confused implicit mess we're 
left with in DTML.

cheers,

Chris


From charlie at begeistert.org  Wed Jul 16 10:25:24 2003
From: charlie at begeistert.org (Charlie Clark)
Date: Wed Jul 16 03:22:33 2003
Subject: [ZPT] zope3-dev proposal on changing implicitly calling
In-Reply-To: <3F13E7BD.3070104@nipltd.com>
References: <3EF2EAF7.8010901@cat-box.net> <3EF33B30.6030208@nipltd.com>
	<3EF33B43.1050303@cat-box.net> <20030624143850.GA9036@flo.in.nuxeo.com>
	<3F13E7BD.3070104@nipltd.com>
Message-ID: <20030716092524.686.1@wonderland.1058338870.fake>


On 2003-07-15 at 13:38:37 [+0200], Chris Withers wrote:
> > To be honest, this sucks. I've always wanted to write
> > 
> >    context/somefunc/something/etc
> > 
> > and have TALES realize that somefunc, being a method, is callable and 
> > couldn't possibly have a 'something' attribute or key.
> 
> How do you differentiate when somefunc would be called and when it 
> wouldn't?
> 
> What parameters would somefunc be called with?
> 
> What would happen if somefunc was callable and took one parameter?

This discussion obviously started somewhere else and before my time on this 
list so please forgive me if I am miscontruing things.

The proposed change is to allow us to access functions within methods to 
callable but not to be able to pass them parameters? I've never had to do 
anything similar as in the supplied example which makes me sceptical but I 
guess my biggest gripe would be having to switch between path and python 
expressions when calling something that initially doesn't take explicit 
parameters to something that does:

<br tal:content="here/myScript">
and
<br tal:content="python: here.myScript(a="a")>

This is counterintuitive... 

"""> Fine. For page templates in Zope, I think Zope should take 
> responsibility for deciding what is callable and what is not, not TALES.
> 
> For TALES in other applications, I think the path expression handler for 
> that application should decide what is callable and what is not, not 
TALES.
"""

... and if I understand Stevecorrectly it should be possible to do this 
within TALES
<br tal:content="here/myScript(a="a")>

In fact I would then be happy always having brackets for calling anything 
method or function just as in Python.  mm, maybe this is the answer to a 
different question? If not the proposed change does not get my vote.

Charlie

From fg at nuxeo.com  Wed Jul 16 13:26:46 2003
From: fg at nuxeo.com (Florent Guillaume)
Date: Wed Jul 16 06:26:50 2003
Subject: [ZPT] zope3-dev proposal on changing implicitly calling
In-Reply-To: <20030716092524.686.1@wonderland.1058338870.fake>
References: <3EF2EAF7.8010901@cat-box.net> <3EF33B30.6030208@nipltd.com>
	<3EF33B43.1050303@cat-box.net>
	<20030624143850.GA9036@flo.in.nuxeo.com>
	<3F13E7BD.3070104@nipltd.com>
	<20030716092524.686.1@wonderland.1058338870.fake>
Message-ID: <3F152866.90509@nuxeo.com>

It's not a proposal at all, it's just me expressing my feelings about 
some part of the existing TALES syntax in light of my experience with 
it. The proposal that Steve made for Zope 3 is quite different and goes 
in the other direction, never calling anything implicitely.

Florent

Charlie Clark wrote:
> On 2003-07-15 at 13:38:37 [+0200], Chris Withers wrote:
> 
>>>To be honest, this sucks. I've always wanted to write
>>>
>>>   context/somefunc/something/etc
>>>
>>>and have TALES realize that somefunc, being a method, is callable and 
>>>couldn't possibly have a 'something' attribute or key.
>>
>>How do you differentiate when somefunc would be called and when it 
>>wouldn't?
>>
>>What parameters would somefunc be called with?
>>
>>What would happen if somefunc was callable and took one parameter?
> 
> 
> This discussion obviously started somewhere else and before my time on this 
> list so please forgive me if I am miscontruing things.
> 
> The proposed change is to allow us to access functions within methods to 
> callable but not to be able to pass them parameters? I've never had to do 
> anything similar as in the supplied example which makes me sceptical but I 
> guess my biggest gripe would be having to switch between path and python 
> expressions when calling something that initially doesn't take explicit 
> parameters to something that does:
> 
> <br tal:content="here/myScript">
> and
> <br tal:content="python: here.myScript(a="a")>
> 
> This is counterintuitive... 
> 
> """> Fine. For page templates in Zope, I think Zope should take 
> 
>>responsibility for deciding what is callable and what is not, not TALES.
>>
>>For TALES in other applications, I think the path expression handler for 
>>that application should decide what is callable and what is not, not 
> 
> TALES.
> """
> 
> ... and if I understand Stevecorrectly it should be possible to do this 
> within TALES
> <br tal:content="here/myScript(a="a")>
> 
> In fact I would then be happy always having brackets for calling anything 
> method or function just as in Python.  mm, maybe this is the answer to a 
> different question? If not the proposed change does not get my vote.
> 
> Charlie
> 

-- 
Florent Guillaume, Nuxeo (Paris, France)
+33 1 40 33 79 87  http://nuxeo.com  mailto:fg@nuxeo.com


From evan at 4-am.com  Wed Jul 16 12:53:47 2003
From: evan at 4-am.com (Evan Simpson)
Date: Wed Jul 16 12:53:54 2003
Subject: [ZPT] Re: zope3-dev proposal on changing implicitly calling
In-Reply-To: <20030624143850.GA9036@flo.in.nuxeo.com>
References: <3EF2EAF7.8010901@cat-box.net>
	<3EF33B30.6030208@nipltd.com>	<3EF33B43.1050303@cat-box.net>
	<20030624143850.GA9036@flo.in.nuxeo.com>
Message-ID: <3F15831B.8060801@4-am.com>

Florent Guillaume wrote:
> To be honest, this sucks. I've always wanted to write
> 
>    context/somefunc/something/etc
> 
> and have TALES realize that somefunc, being a method, is callable and
> couldn't possibly have a 'something' attribute or key.

Can we get some concrete examples, to nail down this use case?  I would 
have no trouble with auto-calling objects that have type 'function' or 
'instance method', since these are not legitimate candidates for 
attribute or key access.  How often are these useful in the middle of a 
path, though?  It's much more common in Zope for a callable class 
instance to have a number of interesting attributes and even act as a 
mapping.

I've come to the conclusion that it was a mistake for us not to set up a 
proper escape mechanism for TALES from the very beginning.  We should 
have required that any characters other than alphanumeric, space, and 
".-_" characters be escaped with backslashes.  Then we would be free, 
now, to allow "context/somefunc()/something" while still supporting 
"context/somefile\(\)/something".

Cheers,

Evan @ 4-am


From fred at zope.com  Wed Jul 16 14:27:16 2003
From: fred at zope.com (Fred L. Drake, Jr.)
Date: Wed Jul 16 13:27:53 2003
Subject: [ZPT] Re: zope3-dev proposal on changing implicitly calling
In-Reply-To: <3F15831B.8060801@4-am.com>
References: <3EF2EAF7.8010901@cat-box.net> <3EF33B30.6030208@nipltd.com>
	<3EF33B43.1050303@cat-box.net>
	<20030624143850.GA9036@flo.in.nuxeo.com>
	<3F15831B.8060801@4-am.com>
Message-ID: <16149.35572.429906.180499@grendel.zope.com>


Florent Guillaume wrote:
 > To be honest, this sucks. I've always wanted to write
 > 
 >    context/somefunc/something/etc
 > 
 > and have TALES realize that somefunc, being a method, is callable and
 > couldn't possibly have a 'something' attribute or key.

Evan Simpson writes:
 > Can we get some concrete examples, to nail down this use case?  I would 
 > have no trouble with auto-calling objects that have type 'function' or 
 > 'instance method', since these are not legitimate candidates for 
 > attribute or key access.

You two have been in Python 1.5.2 land for too long.  ;-)

Methods are just curried functions, and functions can have arbitrary
attributes:

>>> def f():
...   pass
...
>>> def g():
...   print "gee!"
...
>>> f.foo = 12
>>> f.g = g
>>> f.foo
12
>>> f.g()
gee!

Admittedly, it's pretty unusual to do things this way.


  -Fred

-- 
Fred L. Drake, Jr.  <fred at zope.com>
PythonLabs at Zope Corporation

From zen at shangri-la.dropbear.id.au  Thu Jul 17 18:57:33 2003
From: zen at shangri-la.dropbear.id.au (Stuart Bishop)
Date: Thu Jul 17 03:57:58 2003
Subject: [ZPT] Re: zope3-dev proposal on changing implicitly calling
In-Reply-To: <3F15831B.8060801@4-am.com>
Message-ID: <52728161-B82C-11D7-A43F-000A95A06FC6@shangri-la.dropbear.id.au>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1


On Thursday, July 17, 2003, at 02:53  AM, Evan Simpson wrote:

> Florent Guillaume wrote:
>> To be honest, this sucks. I've always wanted to write
>>    context/somefunc/something/etc
>> and have TALES realize that somefunc, being a method, is callable and
>> couldn't possibly have a 'something' attribute or key.
>
> Can we get some concrete examples, to nail down this use case?  I 
> would have no trouble with auto-calling objects that have type 
> 'function' or 'instance method', since these are not legitimate 
> candidates for attribute or key access.  How often are these useful in 
> the middle of a path, though?  It's much more common in Zope for a 
> callable class instance to have a number of interesting attributes and 
> even act as a mapping.

I have a method 'getOntology' that returns the Ontology object
being used by our system. My page templates need to
access here.getOntology()['term_id'].descriptionAsHtml().
This cannot be written in a single TALES expression. I work around
it using ontology = ComputedAttribute(getOntology,1) in the object
that defines getOntology to work around this.

A method in the middle of a TALES path could always be called,
unless you really want to allow here/method/__doc__ (which shouldn't
be allowed, as we can't set security on method.__doc__). But the TALES
would break if someone replaced the method with an Object implementing
__call__

> I've come to the conclusion that it was a mistake for us not to set up 
> a proper escape mechanism for TALES from the very beginning.  We 
> should have required that any characters other than alphanumeric, 
> space, and ".-_" characters be escaped with backslashes.  Then we 
> would be free, now, to allow "context/somefunc()/something" while 
> still supporting "context/somefile\(\)/something".

A new TALES v2 XML namespace could always be defined, which would switch
on any new rules.

- -- 
Stuart Bishop <zen@shangri-la.dropbear.id.au>
http://shangri-la.dropbear.id.au/

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From chrisw at nipltd.com  Thu Jul 17 13:19:21 2003
From: chrisw at nipltd.com (Chris Withers)
Date: Thu Jul 17 07:17:36 2003
Subject: [ZPT] zope3-dev proposal on changing implicitly calling
References: <3EF2EAF7.8010901@cat-box.net> <3EF33B30.6030208@nipltd.com>
	<3EF33B43.1050303@cat-box.net>
	<20030624143850.GA9036@flo.in.nuxeo.com>
	<3F13E7BD.3070104@nipltd.com>
	<20030716092524.686.1@wonderland.1058338870.fake>
Message-ID: <3F168639.5030606@nipltd.com>

Charlie Clark wrote:
> 
> <br tal:content="here/myScript">
> and
> <br tal:content="python: here.myScript(a="a")>
> 
> This is counterintuitive... 

Let's not go here, this isn't what we're discussing, and that's a whole other 
midfield ;-)

> In fact I would then be happy always having brackets for calling anything 
> method or function just as in Python.

You could always use python expressions instead of path expressions all the 
time, which would give exactly what you ask for :-)

cheers,

Chris


From chrisw at nipltd.com  Thu Jul 17 13:20:51 2003
From: chrisw at nipltd.com (Chris Withers)
Date: Thu Jul 17 07:19:04 2003
Subject: [ZPT] zope3-dev proposal on changing implicitly calling
References: <3EF2EAF7.8010901@cat-box.net>
	<3EF33B30.6030208@nipltd.com>	<3EF33B43.1050303@cat-box.net>	<20030624143850.GA9036@flo.in.nuxeo.com>	<3F13E7BD.3070104@nipltd.com>	<20030716092524.686.1@wonderland.1058338870.fake>
	<3F152866.90509@nuxeo.com>
Message-ID: <3F168693.7030007@nipltd.com>

Florent Guillaume wrote:
> It's not a proposal at all, it's just me expressing my feelings about 
> some part of the existing TALES syntax in light of my experience with 
> it. The proposal that Steve made for Zope 3 is quite different and goes 
> in the other direction, never calling anything implicitely.

Interesting, I didn't know that :-(

So, Steve, under you proposal (which I can't find :-S) how would you go about 
calling a page template once you had traversed to it?

cheers,

Chris


From chrisw at nipltd.com  Thu Jul 17 13:22:43 2003
From: chrisw at nipltd.com (Chris Withers)
Date: Thu Jul 17 07:20:57 2003
Subject: [ZPT] Re: zope3-dev proposal on changing implicitly calling
References: <3EF2EAF7.8010901@cat-box.net>	<3EF33B30.6030208@nipltd.com>	<3EF33B43.1050303@cat-box.net>	<20030624143850.GA9036@flo.in.nuxeo.com>
	<3F15831B.8060801@4-am.com>
Message-ID: <3F168703.40008@nipltd.com>

Evan Simpson wrote:
> proper escape mechanism for TALES from the very beginning.  We should 
> have required that any characters other than alphanumeric, space, and 
> ".-_" characters be escaped with backslashes. 

I can almost thing of several situations where that could both suck and blow at 
the same time :-S

Chris


From fg at nuxeo.com  Thu Jul 17 12:35:34 2003
From: fg at nuxeo.com (Florent Guillaume)
Date: Thu Jul 17 07:35:35 2003
Subject: [ZPT] zope3-dev proposal on changing implicitly calling
In-Reply-To: <3F168693.7030007@nipltd.com>
References: <3EF2EAF7.8010901@cat-box.net> <3EF33B30.6030208@nipltd.com>
	<3EF33B43.1050303@cat-box.net>	<20030624143850.GA9036@flo.in.nuxeo.com>
	<3F13E7BD.3070104@nipltd.com>
	<20030716092524.686.1@wonderland.1058338870.fake>
	<3F152866.90509@nuxeo.com>  <3F168693.7030007@nipltd.com>
Message-ID: <1058441411.24130.16.camel@twin.in.efge.org>

On Thu, 2003-07-17 at 13:20, Chris Withers wrote:
> Florent Guillaume wrote:
> > It's not a proposal at all, it's just me expressing my feelings about 
> > some part of the existing TALES syntax in light of my experience with 
> > it. The proposal that Steve made for Zope 3 is quite different and goes 
> > in the other direction, never calling anything implicitely.
> 
> Interesting, I didn't know that :-(
> 
> So, Steve, under you proposal (which I can't find :-S) how would you go about 
> calling a page template once you had traversed to it?

It's at http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope3-dev/2003-June/007372.html

Florent

-- 
Florent Guillaume, Nuxeo (Paris, France)
+33 1 40 33 79 87  http://nuxeo.com  mailto:fg@nuxeo.com


From steve at cat-box.net  Thu Jul 17 16:35:30 2003
From: steve at cat-box.net (Steve Alexander)
Date: Thu Jul 17 08:40:12 2003
Subject: [ZPT] zope3-dev proposal on changing implicitly calling
In-Reply-To: <3F168693.7030007@nipltd.com>
References: <3EF2EAF7.8010901@cat-box.net>
	<3EF33B30.6030208@nipltd.com>	<3EF33B43.1050303@cat-box.net>	<20030624143850.GA9036@flo.in.nuxeo.com>	<3F13E7BD.3070104@nipltd.com>	<20030716092524.686.1@wonderland.1058338870.fake>
	<3F152866.90509@nuxeo.com> <3F168693.7030007@nipltd.com>
Message-ID: <3F169812.4060508@cat-box.net>

Chris Withers wrote:
> Florent Guillaume wrote:
> 
>> It's not a proposal at all, it's just me expressing my feelings about 
>> some part of the existing TALES syntax in light of my experience with 
>> it. The proposal that Steve made for Zope 3 is quite different and 
>> goes in the other direction, never calling anything implicitely.
> 
> 
> Interesting, I didn't know that :-(
> 
> So, Steve, under you proposal (which I can't find :-S) how would you go 
> about calling a page template once you had traversed to it?

In the basic TALES implementation, I wouldn't. The behaviour of calling 
things as they are traversed, or at the end of a traversal, should be 
pluggable. The basic TALES implementation should not call anything in 
particular, unless this can be easily overridden.

I think specific users of TALES should be able to supply their own rules 
for when to call something and when not to call something. This is not 
possible at present, because TALES has hardcoded that if the last thing 
traversed to has a __call__ method, it will be called. My proposal is to 
get rid of this hard-coding.

I expect there will be a "here's a common usage" TALES implementation 
that does what TALES does now. However, such hard-coded behaviour should 
not be in the base implementation.

--
Steve Alexander


From chrisw at nipltd.com  Fri Jul 18 13:03:29 2003
From: chrisw at nipltd.com (Chris Withers)
Date: Fri Jul 18 07:01:47 2003
Subject: [ZPT] zope3-dev proposal on changing implicitly calling
References: <3EF2EAF7.8010901@cat-box.net>
	<3EF33B30.6030208@nipltd.com>	<3EF33B43.1050303@cat-box.net>	<20030624143850.GA9036@flo.in.nuxeo.com>	<3F13E7BD.3070104@nipltd.com>	<20030716092524.686.1@wonderland.1058338870.fake>
	<3F152866.90509@nuxeo.com> <3F168693.7030007@nipltd.com>
	<3F169812.4060508@cat-box.net>
Message-ID: <3F17D401.5050709@nipltd.com>

Steve Alexander wrote:
> In the basic TALES implementation, I wouldn't. The behaviour of calling 
> things as they are traversed, or at the end of a traversal, should be 
> pluggable.

That makes sense, my only fear would be speed of execution. ZPT is crawling slow 
enough already... how will you make sure speed is nto affected, or affect 
positively ;-), by this proposal?

> I expect there will be a "here's a common usage" TALES implementation 
> that does what TALES does now.

Well, I'm marginally in favour of Florent's ideas, but I guess a vote would be 
the most sensible thing...

cheers,

Chris


From steve at cat-box.net  Fri Jul 18 15:32:02 2003
From: steve at cat-box.net (Steve Alexander)
Date: Fri Jul 18 07:36:51 2003
Subject: [ZPT] zope3-dev proposal on changing implicitly calling
In-Reply-To: <3F17D401.5050709@nipltd.com>
References: <3EF2EAF7.8010901@cat-box.net>
	<3EF33B30.6030208@nipltd.com>	<3EF33B43.1050303@cat-box.net>	<20030624143850.GA9036@flo.in.nuxeo.com>	<3F13E7BD.3070104@nipltd.com>	<20030716092524.686.1@wonderland.1058338870.fake>
	<3F152866.90509@nuxeo.com> <3F168693.7030007@nipltd.com>
	<3F169812.4060508@cat-box.net> <3F17D401.5050709@nipltd.com>
Message-ID: <3F17DAB2.5090707@cat-box.net>


> That makes sense, my only fear would be speed of execution. ZPT is 
> crawling slow enough already... how will you make sure speed is nto 
> affected, or affect positively ;-), by this proposal?

The speed of ZPT would be slightly (almost imperceptably) increased in 
Zope 3, because the core TALES code wouldn't be checking to see if the 
last thing traversed to has a __call__.


>> I expect there will be a "here's a common usage" TALES implementation 
>> that does what TALES does now.
> 
> Well, I'm marginally in favour of Florent's ideas, but I guess a vote 
> would be the most sensible thing...

Can you summarise what you think the vote would be for?

--
Steve Alexander



From exteam6 at yahoo.co.in  Fri Jul 18 16:04:07 2003
From: exteam6 at yahoo.co.in (=?iso-8859-1?q?Exteam?=)
Date: Fri Jul 18 10:04:41 2003
Subject: [ZPT] zpt+formulator+DB retrieval
Message-ID: <20030718140407.16580.qmail@web8102.in.yahoo.com>

hi all,

We are able to successfully use ZPT + formulator to
enter values into the database.

But problem is arising with the use of formulator
using ZPT to retreive the values from database and its
proper display.

We want the help of the entire community in solving
this issue. Can anyone site any relevant examples
already present in the net as we are unable to find
any.




Expecting a quick response.

Thanking you,




________________________________________________________________________
Send free SMS using the Yahoo! Messenger. Go to http://in.mobile.yahoo.com/new/pc/

From charlie at begeistert.org  Fri Jul 18 18:29:57 2003
From: charlie at begeistert.org (Charlie Clark)
Date: Fri Jul 18 11:27:02 2003
Subject: [ZPT] zpt+formulator+DB retrieval
In-Reply-To: <20030718140407.16580.qmail@web8102.in.yahoo.com>
References: <20030718140407.16580.qmail@web8102.in.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20030718172957.5954.4@wonderland.1058511977.fake>


On 2003-07-18 at 16:04:07 [+0200], Exteam wrote:
> We are able to successfully use ZPT + formulator to enter values into the 
> database.
> 
> But problem is arising with the use of formulator
> using ZPT to retreive the values from database and its proper display.

You shouldn't need formulator to disply the results. Please provide some 
sample code of what you want to: ie. SQL-Statement.

Charlie

From barry at python.org  Mon Jul 21 03:37:10 2003
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Sun Jul 20 22:37:11 2003
Subject: [ZPT] sequence unpacking syntax in TAL
In-Reply-To: <16145.55765.904899.54943@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
References: <16143.4913.131888.558298@grendel.zope.com>
	<3F0F17A1.2010300@4-am.com>
	<16145.55765.904899.54943@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
Message-ID: <1058754996.939.114.camel@anthem>

On Sun, 2003-07-13 at 18:14, Dieter Maurer wrote:

> Didn't we want to keep TAL as simple as possible?
> Wasn't out motto: simple (and explicite) is beautyful.

The simpler the better.  I've been using tal/tales/metal/zpt fairly
extensively in a non-Zope application (MM3 musings) and there are a
number of things I'd like to see be easier to accomplish.  I'm not quite
ready to post about them (still catching up on post-vacation email). 
I'd rather see an easier way to extend tal-n-friends in principled ways
for application specific needs.

-Barry



From exteam6 at yahoo.co.in  Mon Jul 21 09:06:39 2003
From: exteam6 at yahoo.co.in (=?iso-8859-1?q?Exteam?=)
Date: Mon Jul 21 03:07:15 2003
Subject: [ZPT] python to zpt
Message-ID: <20030721070639.83261.qmail@web8104.in.yahoo.com>

hi all,
i'm stuck at this point,
can some one convert the following python code in to
zpt & help me.
i'm not able to convert it in to zpt.
--------------------------------
rec = context.test_select_sql()
print "Fields definitions"
recordset = rec.dictionaries()
rownum = 1
for record in recordset:
  print "Row %d" % (rownum), "check", record
  rownum = rownum + 1
for key in record.keys():
       print key, "=", record[key]
       print "-" * 80
return printed
---------------------------
plz help me
thanks

________________________________________________________________________
Send free SMS using the Yahoo! Messenger. Go to http://in.mobile.yahoo.com/new/pc/

From robert at redcor.ch  Mon Jul 21 10:34:20 2003
From: robert at redcor.ch (robert)
Date: Mon Jul 21 03:35:01 2003
Subject: [ZPT] python to zpt
In-Reply-To: <20030721070639.83261.qmail@web8104.in.yahoo.com>
References: <20030721070639.83261.qmail@web8104.in.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200307210934.21746.robert@redcor.ch>

call your script getRecords
change it like so:
rec = context.test_select_sql()
recordset = rec.dictionaries()
return recordset

then in a template
<table>
  <tr tal:repeat="record here/getRecords">
      <td tal:repeat="key python:record.keys()" tal:content="python:'%s=%s' % 
(key, record[key]"></td>
  </tr>
</table>

This is untested but should give you the idea
Robert

Am Montag, 21. Juli 2003 09:06 schrieb Exteam:
> hi all,
> i'm stuck at this point,
> can some one convert the following python code in to
> zpt & help me.
> i'm not able to convert it in to zpt.
> --------------------------------
> rec = context.test_select_sql()
> print "Fields definitions"
> recordset = rec.dictionaries()
> rownum = 1
> for record in recordset:
>   print "Row %d" % (rownum), "check", record
>   rownum = rownum + 1
> for key in record.keys():
>        print key, "=", record[key]
>        print "-" * 80
> return printed
> ---------------------------
> plz help me
> thanks
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Send free SMS using the Yahoo! Messenger. Go to
> http://in.mobile.yahoo.com/new/pc/
>
> _______________________________________________
> ZPT mailing list
> ZPT@zope.org
> http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zpt

-- 
mit freundlichen Gr?ssen

Robert Rottermann
www.redCOR.ch


From charlie at begeistert.org  Mon Jul 21 10:50:42 2003
From: charlie at begeistert.org (Charlie Clark)
Date: Mon Jul 21 03:50:45 2003
Subject: [ZPT] python to zpt
In-Reply-To: <20030721070639.83261.qmail@web8104.in.yahoo.com>
References: <20030721070639.83261.qmail@web8104.in.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20030721095042.1207.1@wonderland.1058766224.fake>


On 2003-07-21 at 09:06:39 [+0200], Exteam wrote:
> hi all,
> i'm stuck at this point,
> can some one convert the following python code in to zpt & help me.
> i'm not able to convert it in to zpt.
> --------------------------------
> rec = context.test_select_sql()
> print "Fields definitions"
> recordset = rec.dictionaries()
> rownum = 1
> for record in recordset:
>   print "Row %d" % (rownum), "check", record
>   rownum = rownum + 1
> for key in record.keys():
>        print key, "=", record[key]
>        print "-" * 80
> return printed
> ---------------------------

Hello ???,

it would be nice if you included your real name in your e-mails. Have you 
looked at the ZPT documentation? It should be quite straightforward to do 
what you want but you might want to think more carefully about what that is 
and how you want it to work. The current script would seem to produce a not 
particularly helpful result and as it doesn't contain any HTML is not 
really appropriate for ZPT.

A few pointers: 
you can use Python within ZPT to get at Zope Objects
<body tal:define="results python: here.test_select();
dicts python:results.dictionaries();
keys python:results.names()">

<div tal:repeat="record dicts">
<br tal:content="record">
<span tal:repeat="key keys" tal:content="python: record[key]">
</span>
</div>
</body>

This is untested and probably flawed - it's just supposed to help.

ZPT is really about predictable layouts so having completely dynamic result 
sets is not really the best way to use it. It is however, possible as far 
as I know.

Charlie

From exteam6 at yahoo.co.in  Mon Jul 21 10:09:56 2003
From: exteam6 at yahoo.co.in (=?iso-8859-1?q?Exteam?=)
Date: Mon Jul 21 04:10:34 2003
Subject: [ZPT] conversion in ZPT.
In-Reply-To: <200307210934.21746.robert@redcor.ch>
Message-ID: <20030721080956.37403.qmail@web8103.mail.in.yahoo.com>


hi folks, 

can u please help us in the conversion of a DTML example to ZPT. 

we are trying to get a value from a list and make it as default for a specified field in a formulator.

The DTML example is given 

http://fool.freezope.org/zope/howtos/formulator_fields/test_formulator_html

Please help us in this

Thanking you in anticipation 

Exteam

 

 

SMS using the Yahoo! Messenger;Download latest version.
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From exteam6 at yahoo.co.in  Mon Jul 21 10:20:13 2003
From: exteam6 at yahoo.co.in (=?iso-8859-1?q?Exteam?=)
Date: Mon Jul 21 04:20:49 2003
Subject: [ZPT] python to zpt
In-Reply-To: <200307210934.21746.robert@redcor.ch>
Message-ID: <20030721082013.13699.qmail@web8102.in.yahoo.com>

Thanks a lot Robert,
my only problem is refering to a particular column
name in the db table.
suppose i have 2 columns (a & b )in my DB table , i
want to print only records in column a.
is this possible in the script we have?
thanks a lot again
prasad

 --- robert <robert@redcor.ch> wrote: > call your
script getRecords
> change it like so:
> rec = context.test_select_sql()
> recordset = rec.dictionaries()
> return recordset
> 
> then in a template
> <table>
>   <tr tal:repeat="record here/getRecords">
>       <td tal:repeat="key python:record.keys()"
> tal:content="python:'%s=%s' % 
> (key, record[key]"></td>
>   </tr>
> </table>
> 
> This is untested but should give you the idea
> Robert
> 
> Am Montag, 21. Juli 2003 09:06 schrieb Exteam:
> > hi all,
> > i'm stuck at this point,
> > can some one convert the following python code in
> to
> > zpt & help me.
> > i'm not able to convert it in to zpt.
> > --------------------------------
> > rec = context.test_select_sql()
> > print "Fields definitions"
> > recordset = rec.dictionaries()
> > rownum = 1
> > for record in recordset:
> >   print "Row %d" % (rownum), "check", record
> >   rownum = rownum + 1
> > for key in record.keys():
> >        print key, "=", record[key]
> >        print "-" * 80
> > return printed
> > ---------------------------
> > plz help me
> > thanks
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________
> > Send free SMS using the Yahoo! Messenger. Go to
> > http://in.mobile.yahoo.com/new/pc/
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > ZPT mailing list
> > ZPT@zope.org
> > http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zpt
> 
> -- 
> mit freundlichen Gr?ssen
> 
> Robert Rottermann
> www.redCOR.ch
>  

________________________________________________________________________
Send free SMS using the Yahoo! Messenger. Go to http://in.mobile.yahoo.com/new/pc/

From exteam6 at yahoo.co.in  Mon Jul 21 10:22:08 2003
From: exteam6 at yahoo.co.in (=?iso-8859-1?q?Exteam?=)
Date: Mon Jul 21 04:22:45 2003
Subject: [ZPT] python to zpt
In-Reply-To: <200307210934.21746.robert@redcor.ch>
Message-ID: <20030721082208.37054.qmail@web8101.in.yahoo.com>

sorry small addition,i can do this in the zsql method, but i am not supposed to do this in my zsql method,thanks prasadThanks a lot Robert,my only problem is refering to a particular column name in the db table.suppose i have 2 columns (a & b )in my DB table , i want to print only records in column a.is this possible in the script we have?thanks a lot againprasad --- robert  wrote: > call your script getRecords> change it like so:> rec = context.test_select_sql()> recordset = rec.dictionaries()> return recordset> > then in a template> >   >        tal:content="python:'%s=%s' % > (key, record[key]">>   > > > This is untested but should give you the idea> Robert> > Am Montag, 21. Juli 2003 09:06 schrieb Exteam:> > hi all,> > i'm stuck at this point,> > can some one convert the following python code in> to> > zpt & help me.> > i'm not able to convert it in to zpt.> > --------------------------------> > rec = context.test_select_sql()> > print "Fields definitions"> > recordset =
 rec.dictionaries()> > rownum = 1> > for record in recordset:> >   print "Row %d" % (rownum), "check", record> >   rownum = rownum + 1> > for key in record.keys():> >        print key, "=", record[key]> >        print "-" * 80> > return printed> > ---------------------------> > plz help me> > thanks> >> >> ________________________________________________________________________> > Send free SMS using the Yahoo! Messenger. Go to> > http://in.mobile.yahoo.com/new/pc/> >> > _______________________________________________> > ZPT mailing list> > ZPT@zope.org> > http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zpt> > -- > mit freundlichen Gr?ssen> > Robert Rottermann> www.redCOR.ch>  
SMS using the Yahoo! Messenger;Download latest version.
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From robert at redcor.ch  Mon Jul 21 12:22:29 2003
From: robert at redcor.ch (robert)
Date: Mon Jul 21 05:23:12 2003
Subject: [ZPT] python to zpt
In-Reply-To: <20030721082013.13699.qmail@web8102.in.yahoo.com>
References: <20030721082013.13699.qmail@web8102.in.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200307211122.29928.robert@redcor.ch>

instead of:
<td tal:repeat="key python:record.keys()"
> > tal:content="python:'%s=%s' %
> > (key, record[key]"></td>
you just use:
<td tal:content="python: record['XXX']"></td>
Robert
Am Montag, 21. Juli 2003 10:20 schrieb Exteam:
> Thanks a lot Robert,
> my only problem is refering to a particular column
> name in the db table.
> suppose i have 2 columns (a & b )in my DB table , i
> want to print only records in column a.
> is this possible in the script we have?
> thanks a lot again
> prasad
>
>  --- robert <robert@redcor.ch> wrote: > call your
> script getRecords
>
> > change it like so:
> > rec = context.test_select_sql()
> > recordset = rec.dictionaries()
> > return recordset
> >
> > then in a template
> > <table>
> >   <tr tal:repeat="record here/getRecords">
> >       <td tal:repeat="key python:record.keys()"
> > tal:content="python:'%s=%s' %
> > (key, record[key]"></td>
> >   </tr>
> > </table>
> >
> > This is untested but should give you the idea
> > Robert
> >
> > Am Montag, 21. Juli 2003 09:06 schrieb Exteam:
> > > hi all,
> > > i'm stuck at this point,
> > > can some one convert the following python code in
> >
> > to
> >
> > > zpt & help me.
> > > i'm not able to convert it in to zpt.
> > > --------------------------------
> > > rec = context.test_select_sql()
> > > print "Fields definitions"
> > > recordset = rec.dictionaries()
> > > rownum = 1
> > > for record in recordset:
> > >   print "Row %d" % (rownum), "check", record
> > >   rownum = rownum + 1
> > > for key in record.keys():
> > >        print key, "=", record[key]
> > >        print "-" * 80
> > > return printed
> > > ---------------------------
> > > plz help me
> > > thanks
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> > > Send free SMS using the Yahoo! Messenger. Go to
> > > http://in.mobile.yahoo.com/new/pc/
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > ZPT mailing list
> > > ZPT@zope.org
> > > http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zpt
> >
> > --
> > mit freundlichen Gr?ssen
> >
> > Robert Rottermann
> > www.redCOR.ch
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Send free SMS using the Yahoo! Messenger. Go to
> http://in.mobile.yahoo.com/new/pc/

-- 
mit freundlichen Gr?ssen

Robert Rottermann
www.redCOR.ch


From exteam6 at yahoo.co.in  Mon Jul 21 12:06:16 2003
From: exteam6 at yahoo.co.in (=?iso-8859-1?q?Exteam?=)
Date: Mon Jul 21 06:06:52 2003
Subject: [ZPT] python to zpt
In-Reply-To: <200307211122.29928.robert@redcor.ch>
Message-ID: <20030721100616.52694.qmail@web8103.mail.in.yahoo.com>

thanks a lot robert,
that works
thanks again
prasad
 --- robert <robert@redcor.ch> wrote: > instead of:
> <td tal:repeat="key python:record.keys()"
> > > tal:content="python:'%s=%s' %
> > > (key, record[key]"></td>
> you just use:
> <td tal:content="python: record['XXX']"></td>
> Robert
> Am Montag, 21. Juli 2003 10:20 schrieb Exteam:
> > Thanks a lot Robert,
> > my only problem is refering to a particular column
> > name in the db table.
> > suppose i have 2 columns (a & b )in my DB table ,
> i
> > want to print only records in column a.
> > is this possible in the script we have?
> > thanks a lot again
> > prasad
> >
> >  --- robert <robert@redcor.ch> wrote: > call your
> > script getRecords
> >
> > > change it like so:
> > > rec = context.test_select_sql()
> > > recordset = rec.dictionaries()
> > > return recordset
> > >
> > > then in a template
> > > <table>
> > >   <tr tal:repeat="record here/getRecords">
> > >       <td tal:repeat="key python:record.keys()"
> > > tal:content="python:'%s=%s' %
> > > (key, record[key]"></td>
> > >   </tr>
> > > </table>
> > >
> > > This is untested but should give you the idea
> > > Robert
> > >
> > > Am Montag, 21. Juli 2003 09:06 schrieb Exteam:
> > > > hi all,
> > > > i'm stuck at this point,
> > > > can some one convert the following python code
> in
> > >
> > > to
> > >
> > > > zpt & help me.
> > > > i'm not able to convert it in to zpt.
> > > > --------------------------------
> > > > rec = context.test_select_sql()
> > > > print "Fields definitions"
> > > > recordset = rec.dictionaries()
> > > > rownum = 1
> > > > for record in recordset:
> > > >   print "Row %d" % (rownum), "check", record
> > > >   rownum = rownum + 1
> > > > for key in record.keys():
> > > >        print key, "=", record[key]
> > > >        print "-" * 80
> > > > return printed
> > > > ---------------------------
> > > > plz help me
> > > > thanks
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________
> >
> > > > Send free SMS using the Yahoo! Messenger. Go
> to
> > > > http://in.mobile.yahoo.com/new/pc/
> > > >
> > > >
> _______________________________________________
> > > > ZPT mailing list
> > > > ZPT@zope.org
> > > > http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zpt
> > >
> > > --
> > > mit freundlichen Gr?ssen
> > >
> > > Robert Rottermann
> > > www.redCOR.ch
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________
> > Send free SMS using the Yahoo! Messenger. Go to
> > http://in.mobile.yahoo.com/new/pc/
> 
> -- 
> mit freundlichen Gr?ssen
> 
> Robert Rottermann
> www.redCOR.ch
>  

________________________________________________________________________
Send free SMS using the Yahoo! Messenger. Go to http://in.mobile.yahoo.com/new/pc/

From charlie at begeistert.org  Mon Jul 21 16:03:25 2003
From: charlie at begeistert.org (Charlie Clark)
Date: Mon Jul 21 09:03:30 2003
Subject: [ZPT] conversion in ZPT.
In-Reply-To: <20030721080956.37403.qmail@web8103.mail.in.yahoo.com>
References: <20030721080956.37403.qmail@web8103.mail.in.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20030721150325.4996.6@wonderland.1058766224.fake>


On 2003-07-21 at 10:09:56 [+0200], Exteam wrote:
> 
> hi folks, 
> 
> can u please help us in the conversion of a DTML example to ZPT. 
> 
> we are trying to get a value from a list and make it as default for a 
> specified field in a formulator.
> 
> The DTML example is given 
> 
> http://fool.freezope.org/zope/howtos/formulator_fields/test_formulator_html
> 
> Please help us in this

Hello Prashad,

I've never worked with Formulator so you're on your own there. I'm also 
successfully forgetting DTML so I can just look the HTML.

<form enctype="enctype" method="POST" name="formulator" action="" 
tal:define="
genders python: ["Male", "Female", "No response"];
selected python: "Male">
<table>
<tr>
<td>Your Gender</td>
<td>
<input name="field_gender" type="radio" tal:repeat="gender genders" 
tal:content="gentle" tal:attributes="checked python:test(gender == 
selected, 1, 0)"/>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
</form>

You might have to put the tal:repeat in a <span></span> outside of the 
<input> if this doesn't work staight off but this is in general how you do 
it. It's a bit annoying that checked gets set to "checked", ie. it would be 
nice to set be able to set empty attibutes just using tal:condition.

Charlie

From exteam6 at yahoo.co.in  Mon Jul 21 15:23:28 2003
From: exteam6 at yahoo.co.in (=?iso-8859-1?q?Exteam?=)
Date: Mon Jul 21 09:24:04 2003
Subject: [ZPT] Looking for an answer to Sharing a form for both editing and
	adding (formulator)
In-Reply-To: <20030721150325.4996.6@wonderland.1058766224.fake>
Message-ID: <20030721132328.90514.qmail@web8105.in.yahoo.com>


Hi, 

I am looking for a solution to the problem of using both editing and adding using formulator. Ran into the following page, on the web, which asks the same question so well, that I am just quoting it here. 

U can find it in the following link:

http://www.geocrawler.com/archives/3/12572/2002/11/0/10166843/

The problem is as follows:

How do people structure and name their Formulator forms and Zope trees so
the same form can be shared between add and edit functions?  For example, if
I have an SQL table like so:

    create table person (
        last_name character varying(80),
        first_name character varying(80),
        middle_name character varying(80),
        ssn character varying(80),
        email character varying(80)
    );

I'd like the same form to be usable for both adding new people and editing
the information for people already in the database.  I'm using page
templates, so that might make a difference as well.  Currently, I have a
structure which looks like this

    person
        form
        add
            index_html
            input_form
            do_action
        edit
            index_html
            input_form
            do_action

where "form" is a Formulator object, index_html displays either a blank or
filled in form using input_form, and do_action performs the necessary
database insert or update operations.  Where should my form go and how
should I refer to fields?  Though I use a single Formulator form, I wind up
duplicating the actual HTML <form> (in input_form) because in one case I use
the Formulator defaults and in the other case I fill in values for the
fields dredged from my database.  In my add <form>:

  <th class="form-label"
      tal:content="python: here.utils.field_title(here.form.city)">title</th>
  <td tal:content="structure here/form/city/render">item</td>

In my edit <form>:

  <th class="form-label"
      tal:content="python: here.utils.field_title(here.form.city)">title</th>
  <td tal:content="structure python: here.form.city.render(options['city'])">item</td>

Lots of duplication, as you might imagine.

Also, do I need to use python: to pass a parameter to here/form/city/render
or can I do that somehow from ptl?

I realize this is probably more of a page template question, but you folks
are the ones who must want to share your forms, so I thought you'd have more
direct experience.


===========

looking forward for a quick response..

Regards

Subhankar

 

SMS using the Yahoo! Messenger;Download latest version.
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From exteam6 at yahoo.co.in  Mon Jul 21 15:23:47 2003
From: exteam6 at yahoo.co.in (=?iso-8859-1?q?Exteam?=)
Date: Mon Jul 21 09:24:24 2003
Subject: [ZPT] Looking for an answer to Sharing a form for both editing and
	adding (formulator)
In-Reply-To: <20030721150325.4996.6@wonderland.1058766224.fake>
Message-ID: <20030721132347.90610.qmail@web8105.in.yahoo.com>


Hi, 

I am looking for a solution to the problem of using both editing and adding using formulator. Ran into the following page, on the web, which asks the same question so well, that I am just quoting it here. 

U can find it in the following link:

http://www.geocrawler.com/archives/3/12572/2002/11/0/10166843/

The problem is as follows:

How do people structure and name their Formulator forms and Zope trees so
the same form can be shared between add and edit functions?  For example, if
I have an SQL table like so:

    create table person (
        last_name character varying(80),
        first_name character varying(80),
        middle_name character varying(80),
        ssn character varying(80),
        email character varying(80)
    );

I'd like the same form to be usable for both adding new people and editing
the information for people already in the database.  I'm using page
templates, so that might make a difference as well.  Currently, I have a
structure which looks like this

    person
        form
        add
            index_html
            input_form
            do_action
        edit
            index_html
            input_form
            do_action

where "form" is a Formulator object, index_html displays either a blank or
filled in form using input_form, and do_action performs the necessary
database insert or update operations.  Where should my form go and how
should I refer to fields?  Though I use a single Formulator form, I wind up
duplicating the actual HTML <form> (in input_form) because in one case I use
the Formulator defaults and in the other case I fill in values for the
fields dredged from my database.  In my add <form>:

  <th class="form-label"
      tal:content="python: here.utils.field_title(here.form.city)">title</th>
  <td tal:content="structure here/form/city/render">item</td>

In my edit <form>:

  <th class="form-label"
      tal:content="python: here.utils.field_title(here.form.city)">title</th>
  <td tal:content="structure python: here.form.city.render(options['city'])">item</td>

Lots of duplication, as you might imagine.

Also, do I need to use python: to pass a parameter to here/form/city/render
or can I do that somehow from ptl?

I realize this is probably more of a page template question, but you folks
are the ones who must want to share your forms, so I thought you'd have more
direct experience.


===========

looking forward for a quick response..

Regards

Subhankar

 

SMS using the Yahoo! Messenger;Download latest version.
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From phil at xfr.co.uk  Mon Jul 21 16:51:20 2003
From: phil at xfr.co.uk (Philip Kilner)
Date: Mon Jul 21 10:51:39 2003
Subject: [ZPT] ZPT & Request
Message-ID: <3F1BFDE8.2050608@xfr.co.uk>

Hi List!

Am trying to understand forms in ZPT - can anyone give me a clue as to a 
lump of code that will enumerate the contents of the Request object?

I was hoping something aliong the lines of: -

	tal:replace="request/form/names()"

But I get a key error on "names()" (And pretty much anyting else I try). 
  I guess it goes without saying that I'm still trying to understand ZPT...

:-(

-- 

Regards,

PhilK

Email: phil@xfr.co.uk / Voicemail & Facsimile: 07092 070518

"As we enjoy great advantages from inventions of others,
we should be glad of an opportunity to serve others by
any invention of ours; and this we should do freely and
generously." - Benjamin Franklin


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From phil at xfr.co.uk  Mon Jul 21 16:57:35 2003
From: phil at xfr.co.uk (Philip Kilner)
Date: Mon Jul 21 10:57:55 2003
Subject: [ZPT] ZPT & Request
In-Reply-To: <3F1BFDE8.2050608@xfr.co.uk>
References: <3F1BFDE8.2050608@xfr.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3F1BFF5F.5070307@xfr.co.uk>

Hi List,

Philip Kilner wrote:
> Am trying to understand forms in ZPT - can anyone give me a clue as to a 
> lump of code that will enumerate the contents of the Request object?
> 
> I was hoping something aliong the lines of: -
> 
>     tal:replace="request/form/names()"
> 

Just found fab DTML to ZPT gage by peterbe at: -

	http://www.zope.org/Members/peterbe/DTML2ZPT/#example8

Which gave me: -

<span tal:replace="structure request">info about the request 
namespace</span>

Fantastic!

-- 

Regards,

PhilK

Email: phil@xfr.co.uk / Voicemail & Facsimile: 07092 070518

"As we enjoy great advantages from inventions of others,
we should be glad of an opportunity to serve others by
any invention of ours; and this we should do freely and
generously." - Benjamin Franklin

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From jean at upfrontsystems.co.za  Mon Jul 21 18:20:21 2003
From: jean at upfrontsystems.co.za (Jean Jordaan)
Date: Mon Jul 21 11:21:23 2003
Subject: [ZPT] ZPT & Request
In-Reply-To: <3F1BFF5F.5070307@xfr.co.uk>
References: <3F1BFDE8.2050608@xfr.co.uk> <3F1BFF5F.5070307@xfr.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3F1C04B5.9070904@upfrontsystems.co.za>

> <span tal:replace="structure request">info about the request 
> namespace</span>

Right on :)

You can also explore code like:

 <table>
  <tr tal:repeat="item request/keys">
   <td tal:content="item" />
  </tr>
 </table>

-- 
Jean Jordaan
http://www.upfrontsystems.co.za


From evan at 4-am.com  Mon Jul 21 11:23:43 2003
From: evan at 4-am.com (Evan Simpson)
Date: Mon Jul 21 11:23:48 2003
Subject: [ZPT] ZPT & Request
In-Reply-To: <3F1BFDE8.2050608@xfr.co.uk>
References: <3F1BFDE8.2050608@xfr.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3F1C057F.8020900@4-am.com>

Philip Kilner wrote:
>     tal:replace="request/form/names()"

The REQUEST form attribute is a Python dictionary, which means that the 
following will work:

tal:replace="request/form/keys"
tal:replace="request/form/values"
tal:replace="request/form/items"

Be aware that this also means that you need to use Python expressions if 
you use form variables named 'keys', 'values', or 'items', like so:

tal:replace="python:request.form['items']"

Cheers,

Evan @ 4-am


From phil at xfr.co.uk  Mon Jul 21 17:29:31 2003
From: phil at xfr.co.uk (Philip Kilner)
Date: Mon Jul 21 11:30:02 2003
Subject: [ZPT] ZPT & Request
In-Reply-To: <3F1C04B5.9070904@upfrontsystems.co.za>
References: <3F1BFDE8.2050608@xfr.co.uk> <3F1BFF5F.5070307@xfr.co.uk>
	<3F1C04B5.9070904@upfrontsystems.co.za>
Message-ID: <3F1C06DB.8020607@xfr.co.uk>

Hi Jean,

Jean Jordaan wrote:
>> <span tal:replace="structure request">info about the request 
>> namespace</span>
> 
> 
> Right on :)
> 
> You can also explore code like:
> 
> <table>
>  <tr tal:repeat="item request/keys">
>   <td tal:content="item" />
>  </tr>
> </table>
> 

Thanks - I'll play with that!

What I'm actually trying to do is fire a ZSQL method - I can now see the 
  values in my request - can't see what is happening between there and 
the ZSQL...no record gets inserted, no error message fires...getting 
there, inch by inch!

-- 

Regards,

PhilK

Email: phil@xfr.co.uk / Voicemail & Facsimile: 07092 070518

"As we enjoy great advantages from inventions of others,
we should be glad of an opportunity to serve others by
any invention of ours; and this we should do freely and
generously." - Benjamin Franklin

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From phil at xfr.co.uk  Mon Jul 21 17:33:37 2003
From: phil at xfr.co.uk (Philip Kilner)
Date: Mon Jul 21 11:33:55 2003
Subject: [ZPT] ZPT & Request
In-Reply-To: <3F1C057F.8020900@4-am.com>
References: <3F1BFDE8.2050608@xfr.co.uk> <3F1C057F.8020900@4-am.com>
Message-ID: <3F1C07D1.3090209@xfr.co.uk>

Hi Evan,

Evan Simpson wrote:
> The REQUEST form attribute is a Python dictionary, which means that the 
> following will work:
> 
> tal:replace="request/form/keys"
> tal:replace="request/form/values"
> tal:replace="request/form/items"
> 
> Be aware that this also means that you need to use Python expressions if 
> you use form variables named 'keys', 'values', or 'items', like so:
> 
> tal:replace="python:request.form['items']"
> 

Thanks - am starting to find my way about, but it is becoming clear that 
I need to understand Python and where ZPT ends and Python begins *much* 
better...


-- 

Regards,

PhilK

Email: phil@xfr.co.uk / Voicemail & Facsimile: 07092 070518

"As we enjoy great advantages from inventions of others,
we should be glad of an opportunity to serve others by
any invention of ours; and this we should do freely and
generously." - Benjamin Franklin

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From charlie at begeistert.org  Mon Jul 21 18:43:38 2003
From: charlie at begeistert.org (Charlie Clark)
Date: Mon Jul 21 11:43:38 2003
Subject: [ZPT] Looking for an answer to Sharing a form for both
	editing and adding (formulator)
In-Reply-To: <20030721132347.90610.qmail@web8105.in.yahoo.com>
References: <20030721132347.90610.qmail@web8105.in.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20030721174338.7380.12@wonderland.1058766224.fake>


On 2003-07-21 at 15:23:47 [+0200], Exteam wrote:
> Hi, 
> 
> I am looking for a solution to the problem of using both editing and 
> adding using formulator. Ran into the following page, on the web, which 
> asks the same question so well, that I am just quoting it here. 
> 
> U can find it in the following link:

Pradash, please stop sending HTML-mail to this list and please use a real 
name.

This is a formulator question, it seems. Maybe you should join the 
formulator list.

But the point Skip raises is also a general one. I use METAL-macros to do 
exactly this.

<form metal:define="add_edit" action="local_method" method="POST" 
tal:define="my_name request/my_name | nothing">
<input type=text name="my_name" tal:attributes="content value my_name">
</form>

The trick is in using dummy values when the form is called for a new entry.

Charlie

From barry at python.org  Mon Jul 21 19:14:17 2003
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Mon Jul 21 14:14:19 2003
Subject: [ZPT] Re: zope3-dev proposal on changing implicitly calling
In-Reply-To: <3F15831B.8060801@4-am.com>
References: <3EF2EAF7.8010901@cat-box.net> <3EF33B30.6030208@nipltd.com>
	<3EF33B43.1050303@cat-box.net> <20030624143850.GA9036@flo.in.nuxeo.com>
	<3F15831B.8060801@4-am.com>
Message-ID: <1058811224.2036.95.camel@yyz>

On Wed, 2003-07-16 at 12:53, Evan Simpson wrote:

> attribute or key access.  How often are these useful in the middle of a 
> path, though?

I needed it to access macros in a non-Zope application.

-Barry



From charlie at begeistert.org  Wed Jul 23 14:21:47 2003
From: charlie at begeistert.org (Charlie Clark)
Date: Wed Jul 23 07:21:48 2003
Subject: [ZPT] Problem accessing variables in a path expression
Message-ID: <20030723132147.2317.6@wonderland.1058940604.fake>

Dear list,

there must be a better way than this...

I've got a folder of PageTemplates which I'd like to list in a table of 
contents. The contents will change but I would like to be able to affect 
the order of the pages by naming convention = all files are given a number. 
("1", "2", "3", etc.)

If I use context.objectValues() I get an unsorted list back so I've gone for
context.objectItems() which I can sort as the ids are different. This makes 
calling the ids and titles in ZPT pretty ugly.

<span tal:repeat="page python: here.objectValues()">
<a tal:attributes="href python: page[0]" tal:content="python 
page[1].title_or_id()">
</span>

There must be a better way than this

Charlie

From shane at zope.com  Wed Jul 23 11:23:02 2003
From: shane at zope.com (Shane Hathaway)
Date: Wed Jul 23 10:23:50 2003
Subject: [ZPT] ZPT & Request
In-Reply-To: <3F1C07D1.3090209@xfr.co.uk>
References: <3F1C057F.8020900@4-am.com> <3F1C07D1.3090209@xfr.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3F1E9A46.5010605@zope.com>

Philip Kilner wrote:
> Thanks - am starting to find my way about, but it is becoming clear that 
> I need to understand Python and where ZPT ends and Python begins *much* 
> better...

In ZPT, there is a simple rule: you're in ZPT land until you use the 
"python:" expression prefix.  The syntax outside a Python expression has 
little overlap with the syntax inside a Python expression.  A Python 
expression ends either at a semicolon or at the end of an XML attribute.

A side note: way back when I was getting to know Zope, I tried to learn 
DTML before learning Python.  This turned out to be impossible because 
it was too difficult to tell where DTML ended and Python began.  I 
believe ZPT rectifies this problem by enforcing the simple rule I just 
described.  I would be opposed to any ZPT enhancement that complicates 
that rule, such as the use of parentheses in path expressions.  If we 
force people to learn Python syntax before learning ZPT, a lot of people 
will just give up and learn something else instead (like I did at first.)

Shane


From chrisw at nipltd.com  Wed Jul 23 18:29:48 2003
From: chrisw at nipltd.com (Chris Withers)
Date: Wed Jul 23 12:27:57 2003
Subject: [ZPT] zope3-dev proposal on changing implicitly calling
References: <3EF2EAF7.8010901@cat-box.net>
	<3EF33B30.6030208@nipltd.com>	<3EF33B43.1050303@cat-box.net>	<20030624143850.GA9036@flo.in.nuxeo.com>	<3F13E7BD.3070104@nipltd.com>	<20030716092524.686.1@wonderland.1058338870.fake>
	<3F152866.90509@nuxeo.com> <3F168693.7030007@nipltd.com>
	<3F169812.4060508@cat-box.net> <3F17D401.5050709@nipltd.com>
	<3F17DAB2.5090707@cat-box.net>
Message-ID: <3F1EB7FC.9070607@nipltd.com>

Steve Alexander wrote:
> 
>> That makes sense, my only fear would be speed of execution. ZPT is 
>> crawling slow enough already... how will you make sure speed is nto 
>> affected, or affect positively ;-), by this proposal?
> 
> The speed of ZPT would be slightly (almost imperceptably) increased in 
> Zope 3, because the core TALES code wouldn't be checking to see if the
> last thing traversed to has a __call__.

Well, that's the core TAL engine, right?

If I have a path:
/x/y/z
...where x and z are callables (and x needs to be called to get somethat that y 
can be obtained from...) then what would the Zope 3 ZPT/TAL look like to replace 
the contents of <i> with the result of calling z?

> Can you summarise what you think the vote would be for?

Well, Florent proposed that, if the above example, you'd write:

<i tal:contents="root/x/y/z"/>

I don't yet know what your opion would be, but at the moment, I'm in favour of 
Florent's

cheers,

Chris


From chrisw at nipltd.com  Wed Jul 23 18:38:13 2003
From: chrisw at nipltd.com (Chris Withers)
Date: Wed Jul 23 12:36:23 2003
Subject: [ZPT] ZPT & Request
References: <3F1C057F.8020900@4-am.com> <3F1C07D1.3090209@xfr.co.uk>
	<3F1E9A46.5010605@zope.com>
Message-ID: <3F1EB9F5.6080401@nipltd.com>

Shane Hathaway wrote:
> 
> A side note: way back when I was getting to know Zope, I tried to learn 
> DTML before learning Python.  This turned out to be impossible because 
> it was too difficult to tell where DTML ended and Python began.  I 
> believe ZPT rectifies this problem by enforcing the simple rule I just 
> described.  I would be opposed to any ZPT enhancement that complicates 
> that rule, such as the use of parentheses in path expressions.  If we 
> force people to learn Python syntax before learning ZPT, a lot of people 
> will just give up and learn something else instead (like I did at first.)

As usual, Shane is spot on the mark :-)

Chris


From steve at z3u.com  Wed Jul 23 20:30:48 2003
From: steve at z3u.com (Steve Alexander)
Date: Wed Jul 23 12:41:58 2003
Subject: [ZPT] zope3-dev proposal on changing implicitly calling
In-Reply-To: <3F1EB7FC.9070607@nipltd.com>
References: <3EF2EAF7.8010901@cat-box.net>
	<3EF33B30.6030208@nipltd.com>	<3EF33B43.1050303@cat-box.net>	<20030624143850.GA9036@flo.in.nuxeo.com>	<3F13E7BD.3070104@nipltd.com>	<20030716092524.686.1@wonderland.1058338870.fake>
	<3F152866.90509@nuxeo.com> <3F168693.7030007@nipltd.com>
	<3F169812.4060508@cat-box.net> <3F17D401.5050709@nipltd.com>
	<3F17DAB2.5090707@cat-box.net> <3F1EB7FC.9070607@nipltd.com>
Message-ID: <3F1EB838.1050008@z3u.com>



> If I have a path:
> /x/y/z
> ...where x and z are callables (and x needs to be called to get somethat 
> that y can be obtained from...) then what would the Zope 3 ZPT/TAL look 
> like to replace the contents of <i> with the result of calling z?

For Zope 3, that should depend what traversal components are set for 
traversing x and y and z.

If you say that x and z should be called, because it is their role in 
the application to be called when traversed, then the TALES expression is:

   root/x/y/z

However, let's say 'z' has a __call__ method, but you don't want it to 
be called when being traversed. Currently, you're stuck. It will always 
be called.

The point of my proposal is that Zope 3 cannot control this properly 
because the base TAL/TALES code always calls 'z' if it is callable.


>> Can you summarise what you think the vote would be for?
> 
> Well, Florent proposed that, if the above example, you'd write:
> 
> <i tal:contents="root/x/y/z"/>

That's what I'd like too.

> I don't yet know what your opion would be, but at the moment, I'm in 
> favour of Florent's

Ok. What about when 'z' should not be called?

--
Steve Alexander


From gitte at mmmanager.org  Wed Jul 23 23:12:18 2003
From: gitte at mmmanager.org (Gitte Wange)
Date: Wed Jul 23 16:16:07 2003
Subject: [ZPT] html_quote in ZPT
Message-ID: <3F1EEC22.7020705@mmmanager.org>

Hello,

I may have been missing something, but isn't it possible to use 
html_quote (or something similar) in a Page Template?

Greetings,
Gitte Wange



From jamie at audible.transient.net  Wed Jul 23 14:35:12 2003
From: jamie at audible.transient.net (Jamie Heilman)
Date: Wed Jul 23 16:36:08 2003
Subject: [ZPT] changing the order of operations
Message-ID: <20030723203512.GH382@audible.transient.net>

I've mentioned it before and nobody commented on the idea, but I can't
think of a single good reason 'attributes' is executed before
'omit-tag.' Switching them could yeild speed increases in the case
where 'omit-tag' is true and 'attributes' is expensive.  Am I wrong?
Why is this not a good idea?  When is it useful to generate
attributes for a tag and then throw away the work?

-- 
Jamie Heilman                   http://audible.transient.net/~jamie/
"Most people wouldn't know music if it came up and bit them on the ass."
                                                        -Frank Zappa

From webmaven at lvcm.com  Wed Jul 23 14:42:23 2003
From: webmaven at lvcm.com (Michael Bernstein)
Date: Wed Jul 23 16:42:20 2003
Subject: [ZPT] html_quote in ZPT
In-Reply-To: <3F1EEC22.7020705@mmmanager.org>
References: <3F1EEC22.7020705@mmmanager.org>
Message-ID: <3F1EF32F.1020406@lvcm.com>

Gitte Wange wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I may have been missing something, but isn't it possible to use 
> html_quote (or something similar) in a Page Template?

Page templates do this by default, you need to use the structure keyword 
to override this.

- Michael


From chrisw at nipltd.com  Wed Jul 23 23:01:32 2003
From: chrisw at nipltd.com (Chris Withers)
Date: Wed Jul 23 17:01:37 2003
Subject: [ZPT] zope3-dev proposal on changing implicitly calling
In-Reply-To: <3F1EB838.1050008@z3u.com>
References: <3EF2EAF7.8010901@cat-box.net>
	<3EF33B30.6030208@nipltd.com>	<3EF33B43.1050303@cat-box.net>	<20030624143850.GA9036@flo.in.nuxeo.com>	<3F13E7BD.3070104@nipltd.com>	<20030716092524.686.1@wonderland.1058338870.fake>
	<3F152866.90509@nuxeo.com> <3F168693.7030007@nipltd.com>
	<3F169812.4060508@cat-box.net> <3F17D401.5050709@nipltd.com>
	<3F17DAB2.5090707@cat-box.net> <3F1EB7FC.9070607@nipltd.com>
	<3F1EB838.1050008@z3u.com>
Message-ID: <3F1EF7AC.5080008@nipltd.com>

Steve Alexander wrote:
> For Zope 3, that should depend what traversal components are set for 
> traversing x and y and z.

How do you go about setting traversal components for x, y and z?
What would the default traversal components do?

>> I don't yet know what your opion would be, but at the moment, I'm in 
>> favour of Florent's
> 
> Ok. What about when 'z' should not be called?

Can you give me an example of when that's the case?

cheers,

Chris


From gitte at mmmanager.org  Thu Jul 24 08:20:40 2003
From: gitte at mmmanager.org (Gitte Wange)
Date: Thu Jul 24 01:17:13 2003
Subject: [ZPT] i18n-errors (was: html_quote in ZPT)
References: <3F1EEC22.7020705@mmmanager.org> <3F1EF32F.1020406@lvcm.com>
Message-ID: <3F1F6CA8.2030701@mmmanager.org>

Michael Bernstein wrote:
> Gitte Wange wrote:
> 
>> Hello,
>>
>> I may have been missing something, but isn't it possible to use 
>> html_quote (or something similar) in a Page Template?
> 
> 
> Page templates do this by default, you need to use the structure keyword 
> to override this.
> 
> - Michael

Thanks - didn't help much ;-)
My problem is with the i18n-stuff.
I'm from Denmark (we use ISO-8859-1 encoding) and have some special 
characters (e.g. ?, ? and ?).
At a place I have some translation saying:
<td i18n:translate="">Edit: <span tal:omit-tag="" 
tal:content="here/title" i18n:name="objtitle" /></td>

Whenever I have an object with a title containing any of the above 
mentioned characters, I get an error:
Error Type: UnicodeError
Error Value: ASCII decoding error: ordinal not in range(128)

Note: This error only occurs when I have done the translation inside the 
Message Catalog - not before.

This is the last couple of lines from the traceback:
Module TAL.TALInterpreter, line 567, in do_insertTranslation
Module TAL.TALInterpreter, line 655, in translate
Module Products.PageTemplates.TALES, line 255, in translate
Module Products.TranslationService.PlacefulTranslationService, line 61, 
in translate
Module Products.TranslationService.PlacefulTranslationService, line 166, 
in translate
Module Products.TranslationService.Domain, line 66, in translate
Module Products.TranslationService.Domain, line 88, in _interpolate


I can see that the error occurs in the TranslationService product, but 
perhaps there is others here experiencing the same kind of problem and 
can help me with a solution.


Greetings,
Gitte Wange



From charlie at begeistert.org  Thu Jul 24 09:11:04 2003
From: charlie at begeistert.org (Charlie Clark)
Date: Thu Jul 24 02:11:01 2003
Subject: [ZPT] changing the order of operations
In-Reply-To: <20030723203512.GH382@audible.transient.net>
References: <20030723203512.GH382@audible.transient.net>
Message-ID: <20030724081104.758.1@wonderland.1059024825.fake>


On 2003-07-23 at 22:35:12 [+0200], Jamie Heilman wrote:
> I've mentioned it before and nobody commented on the idea, but I can't 
> think of a single good reason 'attributes' is executed before 'omit-tag.' 
> Switching them could yeild speed increases in the case where 'omit-tag' 
> is true and 'attributes' is expensive.  Am I wrong? Why is this not a 
> good idea?  When is it useful to generate attributes for a tag and then 
> throw away the work?

Sounds more like a programming error to me. Why have tal:attributes and 
tal:omit-tag in the same tag at all?

Charlie

From steve at z3u.com  Thu Jul 24 10:39:24 2003
From: steve at z3u.com (Steve Alexander)
Date: Thu Jul 24 02:44:31 2003
Subject: [ZPT] zope3-dev proposal on changing implicitly calling
In-Reply-To: <3F1EF7AC.5080008@nipltd.com>
References: <3EF2EAF7.8010901@cat-box.net>
	<3EF33B30.6030208@nipltd.com>	<3EF33B43.1050303@cat-box.net>	<20030624143850.GA9036@flo.in.nuxeo.com>	<3F13E7BD.3070104@nipltd.com>	<20030716092524.686.1@wonderland.1058338870.fake>
	<3F152866.90509@nuxeo.com> <3F168693.7030007@nipltd.com>
	<3F169812.4060508@cat-box.net> <3F17D401.5050709@nipltd.com>
	<3F17DAB2.5090707@cat-box.net> <3F1EB7FC.9070607@nipltd.com>
	<3F1EB838.1050008@z3u.com> <3F1EF7AC.5080008@nipltd.com>
Message-ID: <3F1F7F1C.2070204@z3u.com>


> How do you go about setting traversal components for x, y and z?

In Zope 3, you set it up with a zcml directive, or by implementing an 
interface that makes a component handle its own traversal.


> What would the default traversal components do?

That's a issue for zope3-dev, not the zpt list.
All I'm trying to do here is establish that the behaviour of either 
calling or not calling the last item in traversing a TALES path 
expression should be pluggable.

>> Ok. What about when 'z' should not be called?
> 
> Can you give me an example of when that's the case?

z is a class object. You're more interested in getting an attribute or a 
class method from it than creating a new instance.

--
Steve Alexander


From jamie at audible.transient.net  Thu Jul 24 00:50:58 2003
From: jamie at audible.transient.net (Jamie Heilman)
Date: Thu Jul 24 02:51:49 2003
Subject: [ZPT] changing the order of operations
In-Reply-To: <20030724081104.758.1@wonderland.1059024825.fake>
References: <20030723203512.GH382@audible.transient.net>
	<20030724081104.758.1@wonderland.1059024825.fake>
Message-ID: <20030724065058.GK382@audible.transient.net>

Charlie Clark wrote:
> On 2003-07-23 at 22:35:12 [+0200], Jamie Heilman wrote:
> > I've mentioned it before and nobody commented on the idea, but I can't 
> > think of a single good reason 'attributes' is executed before 'omit-tag.' 
> > Switching them could yeild speed increases in the case where 'omit-tag' 
> > is true and 'attributes' is expensive.  Am I wrong? Why is this not a 
> > good idea?  When is it useful to generate attributes for a tag and then 
> > throw away the work?
> 
> Sounds more like a programming error to me. Why have tal:attributes and 
> tal:omit-tag in the same tag at all?

You want to itterate over a set of items wrapping some in a tag with
attributes, and some not, based upon external criteria.  Here's bad
example (isPrincipiaFolderish is sick, and <a> is probably not the
most useful tag), but a self-contained example at any rate:
<ul>
<li tal:repeat="o here/objectValues"><a
    tal:define="name o/getId"
    tal:content="string:&gt;${name}&lt;"
    tal:attributes="href string:${o/absolute_url}/;id o/getId"
    tal:omit-tag="not:o/isPrincipiaFolderish">objects</a></li>
</ul>

-- 
Jamie Heilman                   http://audible.transient.net/~jamie/
"...thats the metaphorical equivalent of flopping your wedding tackle 
 into a lion's mouth and flicking his lovespuds with a wet towel, pure 
 insanity..."						-Rimmer

From fg at nuxeo.com  Thu Jul 24 15:44:29 2003
From: fg at nuxeo.com (Florent Guillaume)
Date: Thu Jul 24 08:44:34 2003
Subject: [ZPT] zope3-dev proposal on changing implicitly calling
In-Reply-To: <3F1EB838.1050008@z3u.com>
References: <3EF2EAF7.8010901@cat-box.net>
	<3EF33B30.6030208@nipltd.com>	<3EF33B43.1050303@cat-box.net>	<20030624143850.GA9036@flo.in.nuxeo.com>	<3F13E7BD.3070104@nipltd.com>	<20030716092524.686.1@wonderland.1058338870.fake>
	<3F152866.90509@nuxeo.com> <3F168693.7030007@nipltd.com>
	<3F169812.4060508@cat-box.net> <3F17D401.5050709@nipltd.com>
	<3F17DAB2.5090707@cat-box.net> <3F1EB7FC.9070607@nipltd.com>
	<3F1EB838.1050008@z3u.com>
Message-ID: <3F1FD4AD.1020302@nuxeo.com>

Steve Alexander wrote:
>> If I have a path:
>> /x/y/z
>> ...where x and z are callables (and x needs to be called to get 
>> somethat that y can be obtained from...) then what would the Zope 3 
>> ZPT/TAL look like to replace the contents of <i> with the result of 
>> calling z?
> 
> 
> For Zope 3, that should depend what traversal components are set for 
> traversing x and y and z.
> 
> If you say that x and z should be called, because it is their role in 
> the application to be called when traversed, then the TALES expression is:
> 
>   root/x/y/z
> 
> However, let's say 'z' has a __call__ method, but you don't want it to 
> be called when being traversed. Currently, you're stuck. It will always 
> be called.
> 
> The point of my proposal is that Zope 3 cannot control this properly 
> because the base TAL/TALES code always calls 'z' if it is callable.
> 
> 
>>> Can you summarise what you think the vote would be for?
>>
>>
>> Well, Florent proposed that, if the above example, you'd write:
>>
>> <i tal:contents="root/x/y/z"/>
> 
> 
> That's what I'd like too.
> 
>> I don't yet know what your opion would be, but at the moment, I'm in 
>> favour of Florent's
> 
> 
> Ok. What about when 'z' should not be called?

TALES has nocall: already, I'm not sure it's very elegant though...

Florent


-- 
Florent Guillaume, Nuxeo (Paris, France)
+33 1 40 33 79 87  http://nuxeo.com  mailto:fg@nuxeo.com


From fred at zope.com  Thu Jul 24 12:48:29 2003
From: fred at zope.com (Fred L. Drake, Jr.)
Date: Thu Jul 24 11:49:46 2003
Subject: [ZPT] changing the order of operations
In-Reply-To: <20030724065058.GK382@audible.transient.net>
References: <20030723203512.GH382@audible.transient.net>
	<20030724081104.758.1@wonderland.1059024825.fake>
	<20030724065058.GK382@audible.transient.net>
Message-ID: <16159.65485.356847.731764@grendel.zope.com>


Charlie Clark wrote:
 > Sounds more like a programming error to me. Why have tal:attributes and 
 > tal:omit-tag in the same tag at all?

Jamie pointed out why you'd want both when you give an expression to
tal:omit-tag, but it probably is an error when using tal:omit-tag="",
and that's a common case.

If anyone would like to submit a patch to raise an error in this case,
I'll be glad to review it.


  -Fred

-- 
Fred L. Drake, Jr.  <fred at zope.com>
PythonLabs at Zope Corporation

From charlie at begeistert.org  Thu Jul 24 20:35:51 2003
From: charlie at begeistert.org (Charlie Clark)
Date: Thu Jul 24 13:36:28 2003
Subject: [ZPT] changing the order of operations
In-Reply-To: <20030724065058.GK382@audible.transient.net>
References: <20030723203512.GH382@audible.transient.net>
	<20030724081104.758.1@wonderland.1059024825.fake>
	<20030724065058.GK382@audible.transient.net>
Message-ID: <20030724193551.3333.14@wonderland.1059024825.fake>


On 2003-07-24 at 08:50:58 [+0200], Jamie Heilman wrote:
> 
> You want to itterate over a set of items wrapping some in a tag with 
> attributes, and some not, based upon external criteria.  Here's bad 
> example (isPrincipiaFolderish is sick, and <a> is probably not the most 
> useful tag), but a self-contained example at any rate: <ul>
> <li tal:repeat="o here/objectValues"><a
>     tal:define="name o/getId"
>     tal:content="string:&gt;${name}&lt;"
>     tal:attributes="href string:${o/absolute_url}/;id o/getId" 
>     tal:omit-tag="not:o/isPrincipiaFolderish">objects</a></li>
> </ul>


If I understand this correctly, the link should be omitted if 
o.isPrincipiaFolderish() is not true? Wouldn't this be better just setting 
a tal:condition or I am missing something in my lack of deep Zope knowledge?

Charlie

From jamie at audible.transient.net  Thu Jul 24 15:15:30 2003
From: jamie at audible.transient.net (Jamie Heilman)
Date: Thu Jul 24 17:16:24 2003
Subject: [ZPT] changing the order of operations
In-Reply-To: <20030724193551.3333.14@wonderland.1059024825.fake>
References: <20030723203512.GH382@audible.transient.net>
	<20030724081104.758.1@wonderland.1059024825.fake>
	<20030724065058.GK382@audible.transient.net>
	<20030724193551.3333.14@wonderland.1059024825.fake>
Message-ID: <20030724211530.GM382@audible.transient.net>

Charlie Clark wrote:
> On 2003-07-24 at 08:50:58 [+0200], Jamie Heilman wrote:
> > You want to itterate over a set of items wrapping some in a tag with 
> > attributes, and some not, based upon external criteria.  Here's bad 
> > example (isPrincipiaFolderish is sick, and <a> is probably not the most 
> > useful tag), but a self-contained example at any rate: <ul>
> > <li tal:repeat="o here/objectValues"><a
> >     tal:define="name o/getId"
> >     tal:content="string:&gt;${name}&lt;"
> >     tal:attributes="href string:${o/absolute_url}/;id o/getId" 
> >     tal:omit-tag="not:o/isPrincipiaFolderish">objects</a></li>
> > </ul>
> 
> If I understand this correctly, the link should be omitted if 
> o.isPrincipiaFolderish() is not true? Wouldn't this be better just setting 
> a tal:condition or I am missing something in my lack of deep Zope knowledge?

tal:condition would remove the content entirely, and thats not what's
desired in this case.  Patch to my own stupid example, because I
defined 'name' for a reason and then forgot to take advantage of it:
-     tal:attributes="href string:${o/absolute_url}/;id o/getId" 
+     tal:attributes="href string:${o/absolute_url}/;id name" 
Not that it matters, but it bugs me to see that inefficiency.  Another
minor note, isPrincipiaFolderish is a simple attribute, not a method,
which is why I don't suggest using it, like I said, its a bad example,
but self-contained.

I haven't really rolled around in the TAL code yet so I'm not sure
where "order" is defined (I'm guessing I'd be insanely lucky if it
were really that simple).  If somebody knows the general area I should
start poking in to play with this change, let me know.  Presumebly the
patch to check for the degenerate case of attributes and omit-tag=""
together would be in a related area and I could make that change too.

-- 
Jamie Heilman                   http://audible.transient.net/~jamie/
"I was in love once -- a Sinclair ZX-81.  People said, "No, Holly, she's 
 not for you." She was cheap, she was stupid and she wouldn't load 
 -- well, not for me, anyway."				-Holly

From fred at zope.com  Thu Jul 24 18:26:11 2003
From: fred at zope.com (Fred L. Drake, Jr.)
Date: Thu Jul 24 17:26:51 2003
Subject: [ZPT] changing the order of operations
In-Reply-To: <20030724211530.GM382@audible.transient.net>
References: <20030723203512.GH382@audible.transient.net>
	<20030724081104.758.1@wonderland.1059024825.fake>
	<20030724065058.GK382@audible.transient.net>
	<20030724193551.3333.14@wonderland.1059024825.fake>
	<20030724211530.GM382@audible.transient.net>
Message-ID: <16160.20211.367690.544198@grendel.zope.com>


Jamie Heilman writes:
 > I haven't really rolled around in the TAL code yet so I'm not sure

Heh, it's not field of daisies!

 > where "order" is defined (I'm guessing I'd be insanely lucky if it
 > were really that simple).  If somebody knows the general area I should
 > start poking in to play with this change, let me know.  Presumebly the

I won't have time to look at that today; I'll try and point you in the
right direction tomorrow.


  -Fred

-- 
Fred L. Drake, Jr.  <fred at zope.com>
PythonLabs at Zope Corporation

From dieter at handshake.de  Fri Jul 25 02:55:04 2003
From: dieter at handshake.de (Dieter Maurer)
Date: Thu Jul 24 20:24:03 2003
Subject: [ZPT] html_quote in ZPT
In-Reply-To: <3F1EEC22.7020705@mmmanager.org>
References: <3F1EEC22.7020705@mmmanager.org>
Message-ID: <16160.29144.915764.85190@gargle.gargle.HOWL>

Gitte Wange wrote at 2003-7-23 22:12 +0200:
 > I may have been missing something, but isn't it possible to use 
 > html_quote (or something similar) in a Page Template?

Someone else already told you that html quoting is done automatically
for "tal:content" and "tal:replace".

Additionally, "html_quote" (and some other useful functions)
are available via "Products.PythonScripts.standard":

    <XXX tal:define="
      standard	nocall: modules/Products.PythonScripts.standard;
      html_quote nocall: standard/html_quote;
      "
      >
      ....
    </XXX>


Dieter

From dieter at handshake.de  Thu Jul 24 21:21:20 2003
From: dieter at handshake.de (Dieter Maurer)
Date: Thu Jul 24 20:24:45 2003
Subject: [ZPT] zope3-dev proposal on changing implicitly calling
In-Reply-To: <3F1F7F1C.2070204@z3u.com>
References: <3EF2EAF7.8010901@cat-box.net> <3EF33B30.6030208@nipltd.com>
	<3EF33B43.1050303@cat-box.net>
	<20030624143850.GA9036@flo.in.nuxeo.com>
	<3F13E7BD.3070104@nipltd.com>
	<20030716092524.686.1@wonderland.1058338870.fake>
	<3F152866.90509@nuxeo.com> <3F168693.7030007@nipltd.com>
	<3F169812.4060508@cat-box.net> <3F17D401.5050709@nipltd.com>
	<3F17DAB2.5090707@cat-box.net> <3F1EB7FC.9070607@nipltd.com>
	<3F1EB838.1050008@z3u.com> <3F1EF7AC.5080008@nipltd.com>
	<3F1F7F1C.2070204@z3u.com>
Message-ID: <16160.9120.455704.142890@gargle.gargle.HOWL>

Steve Alexander wrote at 2003-7-24 09:39 +0300:
 > ...
 > >> Ok. What about when 'z' should not be called?
 > > 
 > > Can you give me an example of when that's the case?
 > 
 > z is a class object. You're more interested in getting an attribute or a 
 > class method from it than creating a new instance.

TALES already can control this: with the "nocall:" expression type.
It behaves exactly like "path:" but does not call the last component.


Dieter

From steve at z3u.com  Fri Jul 25 10:43:12 2003
From: steve at z3u.com (Steve Alexander)
Date: Fri Jul 25 02:48:56 2003
Subject: [ZPT] zope3-dev proposal on changing implicitly calling
In-Reply-To: <16160.9120.455704.142890@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
References: <3EF2EAF7.8010901@cat-box.net>	<3EF33B30.6030208@nipltd.com>	<3EF33B43.1050303@cat-box.net>	<20030624143850.GA9036@flo.in.nuxeo.com>	<3F13E7BD.3070104@nipltd.com>	<20030716092524.686.1@wonderland.1058338870.fake>	<3F152866.90509@nuxeo.com>	<3F168693.7030007@nipltd.com>	<3F169812.4060508@cat-box.net>	<3F17D401.5050709@nipltd.com>	<3F17DAB2.5090707@cat-box.net>	<3F1EB7FC.9070607@nipltd.com>	<3F1EB838.1050008@z3u.com>	<3F1EF7AC.5080008@nipltd.com>	<3F1F7F1C.2070204@z3u.com>
	<16160.9120.455704.142890@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
Message-ID: <3F20D180.3080502@z3u.com>

Dieter Maurer wrote:
> Steve Alexander wrote at 2003-7-24 09:39 +0300:
>  > ...
>  > >> Ok. What about when 'z' should not be called?
>  > > 
>  > > Can you give me an example of when that's the case?
>  > 
>  > z is a class object. You're more interested in getting an attribute or a 
>  > class method from it than creating a new instance.
> 
> TALES already can control this: with the "nocall:" expression type.
> It behaves exactly like "path:" but does not call the last component.

I am aware of this.

In Zope 3, we want to be able to control whether the last component is 
called or not from configuration, depending on the type of that object, 
not from individual path expressions.

--
Steve Alexander


From lists at elvix.com  Fri Jul 25 12:13:42 2003
From: lists at elvix.com (=?ISO-8859-1?B?R2VpciBC5mtob2x0?=)
Date: Fri Jul 25 05:11:13 2003
Subject: [ZPT] i18n-errors (was: html_quote in ZPT)
In-Reply-To: <3F1F6CA8.2030701@mmmanager.org>
References: <3F1EEC22.7020705@mmmanager.org> <3F1EF32F.1020406@lvcm.com>
	<3F1F6CA8.2030701@mmmanager.org>
Message-ID: <9610578981.20030725111342@elvix.com>

On  Thu, 24 Jul 2003 07:20:40 +0200 GMT (..7:20 where i live(GMT+2) )
Gitte Wange asked the ZPT mailinglist about the following:

> My problem is with the i18n-stuff.
> I'm from Denmark (we use ISO-8859-1 encoding) and have some special 
> characters (e.g. ?, ? and ?).
> At a place I have some translation saying:
> <td i18n:translate="">Edit: <span tal:omit-tag="" 
> tal:content="here/title" i18n:name="objtitle" /></td>

> Whenever I have an object with a title containing any of the above 
> mentioned characters, I get an error:
> Error Type: UnicodeError
> Error Value: ASCII decoding error: ordinal not in range(128)

> Note: This error only occurs when I have done the translation inside the 
> Message Catalog - not before.
....
> I can see that the error occurs in the TranslationService product, but 
> perhaps there is others here experiencing the same kind of problem and 
> can help me with a solution.

This is a bug in the I18N framework that has been discussed somewhat
earlier. Try searching the list archives. I recall having the same
problem a year ago or so.

A good starting point might be this thread :
http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zpt/2003-January/004257.html




--
Geir B?kholt


From jean at upfrontsystems.co.za  Fri Jul 25 12:46:55 2003
From: jean at upfrontsystems.co.za (Jean Jordaan)
Date: Fri Jul 25 05:47:46 2003
Subject: [ZPT] tal:repeat over the sorted keys of a dictionary
Message-ID: <3F20FC8F.5000708@upfrontsystems.co.za>

.. the subject says it all. I want to do something like:

        <ul tal:define="keys licenses/keys; sortedkeys keys/sort"
            tal:repeat="key sortedkeys">
            <li tal:content="python:licenses[key]" />
        </ul>

Unfortunately, "keys/sort" (and "python:keys.sort()") return None.
What am I missing?

-- 
Jean Jordaan
http://www.upfrontsystems.co.za


From tino at wildenhain.de  Fri Jul 25 15:07:02 2003
From: tino at wildenhain.de (Tino Wildenhain)
Date: Fri Jul 25 05:55:20 2003
Subject: [ZPT] tal:repeat over the sorted keys of a dictionary
In-Reply-To: <3F20FC8F.5000708@upfrontsystems.co.za>
References: <3F20FC8F.5000708@upfrontsystems.co.za>
Message-ID: <3F211D66.1010807@wildenhain.de>

Hi Jean,

Jean Jordaan wrote:
> .. the subject says it all. I want to do something like:
> 
>        <ul tal:define="keys licenses/keys; sortedkeys keys/sort"
>            tal:repeat="key sortedkeys">
>            <li tal:content="python:licenses[key]" />
>        </ul>
> 
> Unfortunately, "keys/sort" (and "python:keys.sort()") return None.
> What am I missing?
> 

sort() is an in-place operation.
In your python script which calculates the dictionary,
just do something like that:

sl=licenses.keys()
sl.sort()
return [licenses[key] for key in sl]


and use
  <ul>
    <li tal:repeat="license here/licensesscript" 
tal:content="license">dummy</li>
</ul>

In ZPT


From jean at upfrontsystems.co.za  Fri Jul 25 13:13:25 2003
From: jean at upfrontsystems.co.za (Jean Jordaan)
Date: Fri Jul 25 06:14:12 2003
Subject: [ZPT] tal:repeat over the sorted keys of a dictionary
In-Reply-To: <3F211D66.1010807@wildenhain.de>
References: <3F20FC8F.5000708@upfrontsystems.co.za>
	<3F211D66.1010807@wildenhain.de>
Message-ID: <3F2102C5.1090603@upfrontsystems.co.za>

Hi Tino

> sort() is an in-place operation.

Yeah, I knew this was what I'm facing. Ah, you kickstarted my
brain :)  Looks like this works::

        <ul tal:define="keys licenses/keys; dummy keys/sort"
            tal:repeat="key keys">
            <li tal:content="python:licenses[key]" />
        </ul>

That "dummy" isn't pretty. More natural idioms would be welcomed.

> In your python script which calculates the dictionary,

I'm reluctant to do that. I'm iterating over a ComputedAttribute,
which is supposed to be a dictionary. I don't really want to 
define another method just to pre-iterate the dict.

Thanks!
-- 
Jean Jordaan
http://www.upfrontsystems.co.za


From shane at zope.com  Fri Jul 25 12:22:36 2003
From: shane at zope.com (Shane Hathaway)
Date: Fri Jul 25 11:23:35 2003
Subject: [ZPT] tal:repeat over the sorted keys of a dictionary
In-Reply-To: <3F2102C5.1090603@upfrontsystems.co.za>
References: <3F211D66.1010807@wildenhain.de>
	<3F2102C5.1090603@upfrontsystems.co.za>
Message-ID: <3F214B3C.1090209@zope.com>

Jean Jordaan wrote:
>        <ul tal:define="keys licenses/keys; dummy keys/sort"
>            tal:repeat="key keys">
>            <li tal:content="python:licenses[key]" />
>        </ul>
> 
> That "dummy" isn't pretty. More natural idioms would be welcomed.

Well, FWIW, this is yet another case that would benefit from prefixes. 
Something like this:

        <ul tal:repeat="key licenses/keys/format:sort">
            <li tal:content="licenses/key" />
        </ul>

Shane


From fred at zope.com  Fri Jul 25 12:26:53 2003
From: fred at zope.com (Fred L. Drake, Jr.)
Date: Fri Jul 25 11:27:30 2003
Subject: [ZPT] tal:repeat over the sorted keys of a dictionary
In-Reply-To: <3F214B3C.1090209@zope.com>
References: <3F211D66.1010807@wildenhain.de>
	<3F2102C5.1090603@upfrontsystems.co.za> <3F214B3C.1090209@zope.com>
Message-ID: <16161.19517.192470.214247@grendel.zope.com>


Shane Hathaway writes:
 >         <ul tal:repeat="key licenses/keys/format:sort">
 >             <li tal:content="licenses/key" />
 >         </ul>

Cool, but I'd call it format:sorted.  (Either would be better than
format:sordid though.)


  -Fred

-- 
Fred L. Drake, Jr.  <fred at zope.com>
PythonLabs at Zope Corporation

From shane at zope.com  Fri Jul 25 12:33:48 2003
From: shane at zope.com (Shane Hathaway)
Date: Fri Jul 25 11:34:37 2003
Subject: [ZPT] tal:repeat over the sorted keys of a dictionary
In-Reply-To: <16161.19517.192470.214247@grendel.zope.com>
References: <3F211D66.1010807@wildenhain.de>	<3F2102C5.1090603@upfrontsystems.co.za>	<3F214B3C.1090209@zope.com>
	<16161.19517.192470.214247@grendel.zope.com>
Message-ID: <3F214DDC.2060603@zope.com>

Fred L. Drake, Jr. wrote:
> Shane Hathaway writes:
>  >         <ul tal:repeat="key licenses/keys/format:sort">
>  >             <li tal:content="licenses/key" />
>  >         </ul>
> 
> Cool, but I'd call it format:sorted.  (Either would be better than
> format:sordid though.)

Agreed.

Shane


From jean at upfrontsystems.co.za  Fri Jul 25 18:36:11 2003
From: jean at upfrontsystems.co.za (Jean Jordaan)
Date: Fri Jul 25 11:37:12 2003
Subject: [ZPT] tal:repeat over the sorted keys of a dictionary
In-Reply-To: <3F214B3C.1090209@zope.com>
References: <3F211D66.1010807@wildenhain.de>
	<3F2102C5.1090603@upfrontsystems.co.za> <3F214B3C.1090209@zope.com>
Message-ID: <3F214E6B.9090308@upfrontsystems.co.za>

>        <ul tal:repeat="key licenses/keys/format:sort">
>            <li tal:content="licenses/key" />
>        </ul>

OK, then 'format' is a script that takes the output of 'keys', 
passes it to 'sort', and returns the result? If it's ubiquitous, 
fine .. otherwise, I like the 'dummy' route sans helper scripts 
more.

Is '<li tal:content="licenses/key" />' a feature deriving from 
the proposed changes? As is, it raises a KeyError on 'key'. So 
one has to '<li tal:content="python:licenses[key]" />'. Hmm, I
think we're stuck with the "python:" there .. 

-- 
Jean Jordaan
http://www.upfrontsystems.co.za


From jean at upfrontsystems.co.za  Fri Jul 25 18:40:44 2003
From: jean at upfrontsystems.co.za (Jean Jordaan)
Date: Fri Jul 25 11:41:36 2003
Subject: [ZPT] tal:repeat over the sorted keys of a dictionary
In-Reply-To: <16161.19517.192470.214247@grendel.zope.com>
References: <3F211D66.1010807@wildenhain.de>	<3F2102C5.1090603@upfrontsystems.co.za>
	<3F214B3C.1090209@zope.com>
	<16161.19517.192470.214247@grendel.zope.com>
Message-ID: <3F214F7C.9010901@upfrontsystems.co.za>

> Shane Hathaway writes:
>  >         <ul tal:repeat="key licenses/keys/format:sort">
>  >             <li tal:content="licenses/key" />
>  >         </ul>
> 
> Cool, but I'd call it format:sorted.  (Either would be better than
> format:sordid though.)

Ugh, I think it's sordid to let lie the perfectly apposite 'sort' 
method of dictionaries, in favour of some formatting protocol
helper :/

-- 
Jean Jordaan
http://www.upfrontsystems.co.za


From fred at zope.com  Fri Jul 25 12:52:40 2003
From: fred at zope.com (Fred L. Drake, Jr.)
Date: Fri Jul 25 11:53:16 2003
Subject: [ZPT] tal:repeat over the sorted keys of a dictionary
In-Reply-To: <3F214F7C.9010901@upfrontsystems.co.za>
References: <3F211D66.1010807@wildenhain.de>
	<3F2102C5.1090603@upfrontsystems.co.za> <3F214B3C.1090209@zope.com>
	<16161.19517.192470.214247@grendel.zope.com>
	<3F214F7C.9010901@upfrontsystems.co.za>
Message-ID: <16161.21064.887046.555965@grendel.zope.com>


Jean Jordaan writes:
 > Ugh, I think it's sordid to let lie the perfectly apposite 'sort' 
 > method of dictionaries, in favour of some formatting protocol
 > helper :/

Now, a sort() method on dictionaries would be perfectly sordid!

More seriously, the issue here is one of using return values versus
side effects.  In Python code, the use of side effects is quite
natural, but it's just not what TAL/TALES were designed for.  People
have asked Guido to let [].sort() return the sorted list (as well as
sorting it in place), but that would break a Python consistency rule
in a fundamental way ("if you're calling it for a side effect, don't
return anything").  Since you're relying directly on [].sort() in your
first expression, that's just how it works.

Using lots of helpers via adapters selected by a namespace prefix
could indeed make a template hard to read, but I think they're easier
to read than including a bunch of Python expressions, and much less
obscure than relying on side effects in a templating system that's
remarkably functional (as in functional programming, not simply that
it works).


  -Fred

-- 
Fred L. Drake, Jr.  <fred at zope.com>
PythonLabs at Zope Corporation

From shane at zope.com  Fri Jul 25 12:56:46 2003
From: shane at zope.com (Shane Hathaway)
Date: Fri Jul 25 11:57:42 2003
Subject: [ZPT] tal:repeat over the sorted keys of a dictionary
In-Reply-To: <3F214E6B.9090308@upfrontsystems.co.za>
References: <3F211D66.1010807@wildenhain.de>
	<3F2102C5.1090603@upfrontsystems.co.za> <3F214B3C.1090209@zope.com>
	<3F214E6B.9090308@upfrontsystems.co.za>
Message-ID: <3F21533E.2040101@zope.com>

Jean Jordaan wrote:
>>        <ul tal:repeat="key licenses/keys/format:sort">
>>            <li tal:content="licenses/key" />
>>        </ul>
> 
> 
> OK, then 'format' is a script that takes the output of 'keys', passes it 
> to 'sort', and returns the result? If it's ubiquitous, fine .. 
> otherwise, I like the 'dummy' route sans helper scripts more.

No.  "format:" is a namespace qualifier that tells ZPT to call a script 
in the standard formats module rather than look for an attribute or 
item.  Not all namespaces imply a module import, though.  Each namespace 
has a different meaning.  This mechanism is intended to be ubiquitous.

> Is '<li tal:content="licenses/key" />' a feature deriving from the 
> proposed changes? As is, it raises a KeyError on 'key'.

Oops, silly me.  Let me fix the bugs I introduced. :-)

   <ul tal:repeat="key licenses/call:keys/format:sorted">
    <li tal:content="licenses/key:?key" />
   </ul>

Yikes, that second expression is looking ugly.  Therefore, I would 
revert it to a Python expression:

   <ul tal:repeat="key licenses/call:keys/format:sorted">
    <li tal:content="python: licenses[key]" />
   </ul>

This is OK, but here's an alternative that would work if we added one 
more function to the standard formats module:

   <ul tal:repeat="item licenses/format:sorted_dict_items">
    <li tal:content="item/value" />
   </ul>

Shane


From dieter at handshake.de  Fri Jul 25 21:59:39 2003
From: dieter at handshake.de (Dieter Maurer)
Date: Fri Jul 25 16:37:02 2003
Subject: [ZPT] tal:repeat over the sorted keys of a dictionary
In-Reply-To: <16161.21064.887046.555965@grendel.zope.com>
References: <3F211D66.1010807@wildenhain.de>
	<3F2102C5.1090603@upfrontsystems.co.za> <3F214B3C.1090209@zope.com>
	<16161.19517.192470.214247@grendel.zope.com>
	<3F214F7C.9010901@upfrontsystems.co.za>
	<16161.21064.887046.555965@grendel.zope.com>
Message-ID: <16161.32283.543738.431509@gargle.gargle.HOWL>

Fred L. Drake, Jr. wrote at 2003-7-25 11:52 -0400:
 > ...
 > but that would break a Python consistency rule
 > in a fundamental way ("if you're calling it for a side effect, don't
 > return anything").

This is broken anyway: e.g. by "list.pop"...


Dieter

From dieter at handshake.de  Fri Jul 25 22:44:03 2003
From: dieter at handshake.de (Dieter Maurer)
Date: Fri Jul 25 16:37:18 2003
Subject: [ZPT] tal:repeat over the sorted keys of a dictionary
In-Reply-To: <3F20FC8F.5000708@upfrontsystems.co.za>
References: <3F20FC8F.5000708@upfrontsystems.co.za>
Message-ID: <16161.34947.537847.86335@gargle.gargle.HOWL>

Jean Jordaan wrote at 2003-7-25 11:46 +0200:
 > .. the subject says it all. I want to do something like:
 > 
 >         <ul tal:define="keys licenses/keys; sortedkeys keys/sort"
 >             tal:repeat="key sortedkeys">
 >             <li tal:content="python:licenses[key]" />
 >         </ul>
 > 
 > Unfortunately, "keys/sort" (and "python:keys.sort()") return None.
 > What am I missing?

An intermediate "dummy" assignment:

   <... tal:define="
          keys	licenses/keys;
	  dummy keys/sort;
	  "
	tal:repeat="key keys"
	...
  >

The "keys/sort" sorts "keys" as a side effect.


I do not say that side effects in templates are easy to understand.


Dieter

From fred at zope.com  Fri Jul 25 17:41:30 2003
From: fred at zope.com (Fred L. Drake, Jr.)
Date: Fri Jul 25 16:42:08 2003
Subject: [ZPT] tal:repeat over the sorted keys of a dictionary
In-Reply-To: <16161.32283.543738.431509@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
References: <3F211D66.1010807@wildenhain.de>
	<3F2102C5.1090603@upfrontsystems.co.za> <3F214B3C.1090209@zope.com>
	<16161.19517.192470.214247@grendel.zope.com>
	<3F214F7C.9010901@upfrontsystems.co.za>
	<16161.21064.887046.555965@grendel.zope.com>
	<16161.32283.543738.431509@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
Message-ID: <16161.38394.832744.813920@grendel.zope.com>


Dieter Maurer writes:
 > This is broken anyway: e.g. by "list.pop"...

Yeah, there is that.  Maybe we can get list.pop and dict.popitem
deprecated.  ;-)


  -Fred

-- 
Fred L. Drake, Jr.  <fred at zope.com>
PythonLabs at Zope Corporation

From chrisw at nipltd.com  Mon Jul 28 11:31:35 2003
From: chrisw at nipltd.com (Chris Withers)
Date: Mon Jul 28 05:31:44 2003
Subject: [ZPT] tal:repeat over the sorted keys of a dictionary
In-Reply-To: <3F214B3C.1090209@zope.com>
References: <3F211D66.1010807@wildenhain.de>	<3F2102C5.1090603@upfrontsystems.co.za>
	<3F214B3C.1090209@zope.com>
Message-ID: <3F24ED77.5000509@nipltd.com>

Shane Hathaway wrote:
> Well, FWIW, this is yet another case that would benefit from prefixes. 
> Something like this:
> 
>        <ul tal:repeat="key licenses/keys/format:sort">
>            <li tal:content="licenses/key" />
>        </ul>

AFAIK, the code to support this is alread ypresent in Zope 3's TALES...

cheers,

Chris


From chrisw at nipltd.com  Mon Jul 28 11:37:17 2003
From: chrisw at nipltd.com (Chris Withers)
Date: Mon Jul 28 05:37:16 2003
Subject: [ZPT] changing the order of operations
In-Reply-To: <20030723203512.GH382@audible.transient.net>
References: <20030723203512.GH382@audible.transient.net>
Message-ID: <3F24EECD.1050607@nipltd.com>


Jamie Heilman wrote:

> I've mentioned it before and nobody commented on the idea, but I can't
> think of a single good reason 'attributes' is executed before
> 'omit-tag.'

Indeed. Probably the only thing that would make sense before omit-tag would be 
define and condition.

What do other people think?

cheers,

Chris


From chrisw at nipltd.com  Mon Jul 28 11:42:38 2003
From: chrisw at nipltd.com (Chris Withers)
Date: Mon Jul 28 05:42:38 2003
Subject: [ZPT] changing the order of operations
In-Reply-To: <16159.65485.356847.731764@grendel.zope.com>
References: <20030723203512.GH382@audible.transient.net>	<20030724081104.758.1@wonderland.1059024825.fake>	<20030724065058.GK382@audible.transient.net>
	<16159.65485.356847.731764@grendel.zope.com>
Message-ID: <3F24F00E.3040907@nipltd.com>

Fred L. Drake, Jr. wrote:

> Jamie pointed out why you'd want both when you give an expression to
> tal:omit-tag, 

Indeed. Think a username where you want to make it an <a href="mailto:"> to send 
that person an email when you click on their name. You don't want the name to be 
a link if you don't have an email address for them ;-)

 > but it probably is an error

Sorry, lost me, what is 'it' here?

> when using tal:omit-tag="",
> and that's a common case.

Yeah, but I think most people prefer just to shove stuff into the tal: or metal: 
namespaces nowadays:

<tal:username content="username">Fred</tal:username>

Hang on, actually, doesn't tal:omit-tag="" mean that the tag is _always_ included?

I've often wished TAL had an include-tag command instead:

<a href=""
    tal:include-tag="here/email"
    tal:attributes="href string:mailto:${here/email}
    tal:content="here/username">Fred</a>

But, if that's how tal:omit-tag works, then it's just plain wrong :-(

Can someone help my brain out here?

cheers,

Chris


From chrisw at nipltd.com  Mon Jul 28 11:45:02 2003
From: chrisw at nipltd.com (Chris Withers)
Date: Mon Jul 28 05:45:00 2003
Subject: [ZPT] zope3-dev proposal on changing implicitly calling
In-Reply-To: <3F1F7F1C.2070204@z3u.com>
References: <3EF2EAF7.8010901@cat-box.net>
	<3EF33B30.6030208@nipltd.com>	<3EF33B43.1050303@cat-box.net>	<20030624143850.GA9036@flo.in.nuxeo.com>	<3F13E7BD.3070104@nipltd.com>	<20030716092524.686.1@wonderland.1058338870.fake>
	<3F152866.90509@nuxeo.com> <3F168693.7030007@nipltd.com>
	<3F169812.4060508@cat-box.net> <3F17D401.5050709@nipltd.com>
	<3F17DAB2.5090707@cat-box.net> <3F1EB7FC.9070607@nipltd.com>
	<3F1EB838.1050008@z3u.com> <3F1EF7AC.5080008@nipltd.com>
	<3F1F7F1C.2070204@z3u.com>
Message-ID: <3F24F09E.9030104@nipltd.com>

Steve Alexander wrote:

>>> Ok. What about when 'z' should not be called?
>>
>>
>> Can you give me an example of when that's the case?
> 
> 
> z is a class object. You're more interested in getting an attribute or a 
> class method from it than creating a new instance.

I do hope that's an edge case...

...in which case something like a nocall: should be fine.

cheers,

Chris


From chrisw at nipltd.com  Mon Jul 28 11:45:44 2003
From: chrisw at nipltd.com (Chris Withers)
Date: Mon Jul 28 05:45:43 2003
Subject: [ZPT] zope3-dev proposal on changing implicitly calling
In-Reply-To: <3F20D180.3080502@z3u.com>
References: <3EF2EAF7.8010901@cat-box.net>	<3EF33B30.6030208@nipltd.com>	<3EF33B43.1050303@cat-box.net>	<20030624143850.GA9036@flo.in.nuxeo.com>	<3F13E7BD.3070104@nipltd.com>	<20030716092524.686.1@wonderland.1058338870.fake>	<3F152866.90509@nuxeo.com>	<3F168693.7030007@nipltd.com>	<3F169812.4060508@cat-box.net>	<3F17D401.5050709@nipltd.com>	<3F17DAB2.5090707@cat-box.net>	<3F1EB7FC.9070607@nipltd.com>	<3F1EB838.1050008@z3u.com>	<3F1EF7AC.5080008@nipltd.com>	<3F1F7F1C.2070204@z3u.com>
	<16160.9120.455704.142890@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
	<3F20D180.3080502@z3u.com>
Message-ID: <3F24F0C8.3050908@nipltd.com>

Steve Alexander wrote:

> In Zope 3, we want to be able to control whether the last component is 
> called or not from configuration, depending on the type of that object, 
> not from individual path expressions.

That's sounds like unnecessary complexity to me...

cheers,

Chris


From jamie at audible.transient.net  Mon Jul 28 03:49:41 2003
From: jamie at audible.transient.net (Jamie Heilman)
Date: Mon Jul 28 05:50:30 2003
Subject: [ZPT] changing the order of operations
In-Reply-To: <3F24F00E.3040907@nipltd.com>
References: <20030723203512.GH382@audible.transient.net>
	<20030724081104.758.1@wonderland.1059024825.fake>
	<20030724065058.GK382@audible.transient.net>
	<16159.65485.356847.731764@grendel.zope.com>
	<3F24F00E.3040907@nipltd.com>
Message-ID: <20030728094941.GA382@audible.transient.net>

Chris Withers wrote:
> > but it probably is an error
> 
> Sorry, lost me, what is 'it' here?

The case of tal:attributes="something" tal:omit-tag="" in the same tag.
As it currently stands, this combination doesn't make any sense.  If
the order were switched I'd be less inclined to actually check for
this case because its just like saying "if 0:" which can be handy when
disabling something for a quick check.  The problem right now is that
all the work isn't being short-circuited.
 
> Hang on, actually, doesn't tal:omit-tag="" mean that the tag is _always_ 
> included?

No, always omitted.
 
> Can someone help my brain out here?

If the omit-tag expression evaluates to true, or is empty, the tag is
omitted.

-- 
Jamie Heilman                   http://audible.transient.net/~jamie/
"...thats the metaphorical equivalent of flopping your wedding tackle 
 into a lion's mouth and flicking his lovespuds with a wet towel, pure 
 insanity..."						-Rimmer

From steve at z3u.com  Mon Jul 28 13:46:57 2003
From: steve at z3u.com (Steve Alexander)
Date: Mon Jul 28 05:52:36 2003
Subject: [ZPT] zope3-dev proposal on changing implicitly calling
In-Reply-To: <3F24F09E.9030104@nipltd.com>
References: <3EF2EAF7.8010901@cat-box.net>
	<3EF33B30.6030208@nipltd.com>	<3EF33B43.1050303@cat-box.net>	<20030624143850.GA9036@flo.in.nuxeo.com>	<3F13E7BD.3070104@nipltd.com>	<20030716092524.686.1@wonderland.1058338870.fake>
	<3F152866.90509@nuxeo.com> <3F168693.7030007@nipltd.com>
	<3F169812.4060508@cat-box.net> <3F17D401.5050709@nipltd.com>
	<3F17DAB2.5090707@cat-box.net> <3F1EB7FC.9070607@nipltd.com>
	<3F1EB838.1050008@z3u.com> <3F1EF7AC.5080008@nipltd.com>
	<3F1F7F1C.2070204@z3u.com> <3F24F09E.9030104@nipltd.com>
Message-ID: <3F24F111.5070303@z3u.com>

Chris Withers wrote:
> Steve Alexander wrote:
> 
>>>> Ok. What about when 'z' should not be called?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Can you give me an example of when that's the case?
>>
>>
>>
>> z is a class object. You're more interested in getting an attribute or 
>> a class method from it than creating a new instance.
> 
> 
> I do hope that's an edge case...
> 
> ...in which case something like a nocall: should be fine.

It will not be fine, because in Zope 3 we want to control these things 
through policy, not through whether nocall: is present in a TALES 
expression or not.

--
Steve Alexander



From jean at upfrontsystems.co.za  Mon Jul 28 12:55:10 2003
From: jean at upfrontsystems.co.za (Jean Jordaan)
Date: Mon Jul 28 05:55:53 2003
Subject: [ZPT] changing the order of operations
In-Reply-To: <3F24F00E.3040907@nipltd.com>
References: <20030723203512.GH382@audible.transient.net>	<20030724081104.758.1@wonderland.1059024825.fake>	<20030724065058.GK382@audible.transient.net>	<16159.65485.356847.731764@grendel.zope.com>
	<3F24F00E.3040907@nipltd.com>
Message-ID: <3F24F2FE.8020505@upfrontsystems.co.za>

> I think most people prefer just to shove stuff into the tal: 
> or metal: namespaces nowadays:

Yes, I try to do this wherever it makes sense, and use the 
tagname as a small documentation opportunity. It's especially 
nice where you close the tag::

  <tal:menu_items repeat="item ...">
    <div tal:define="menu_id ...; menu_url ...">
    [... lots of stuff ...]
  </tal:menu_items>

Much better than "</span> <!-- end of menu items -->"

-- 
Jean Jordaan
http://www.upfrontsystems.co.za


From steve at z3u.com  Mon Jul 28 13:51:32 2003
From: steve at z3u.com (Steve Alexander)
Date: Mon Jul 28 05:57:14 2003
Subject: [ZPT] zope3-dev proposal on changing implicitly calling
In-Reply-To: <3F24F0C8.3050908@nipltd.com>
References: <3EF2EAF7.8010901@cat-box.net>	<3EF33B30.6030208@nipltd.com>	<3EF33B43.1050303@cat-box.net>	<20030624143850.GA9036@flo.in.nuxeo.com>	<3F13E7BD.3070104@nipltd.com>	<20030716092524.686.1@wonderland.1058338870.fake>	<3F152866.90509@nuxeo.com>	<3F168693.7030007@nipltd.com>	<3F169812.4060508@cat-box.net>	<3F17D401.5050709@nipltd.com>	<3F17DAB2.5090707@cat-box.net>	<3F1EB7FC.9070607@nipltd.com>	<3F1EB838.1050008@z3u.com>	<3F1EF7AC.5080008@nipltd.com>	<3F1F7F1C.2070204@z3u.com>
	<16160.9120.455704.142890@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
	<3F20D180.3080502@z3u.com> <3F24F0C8.3050908@nipltd.com>
Message-ID: <3F24F224.8040801@z3u.com>

Chris Withers wrote:
> Steve Alexander wrote:
> 
>> In Zope 3, we want to be able to control whether the last component is 
>> called or not from configuration, depending on the type of that 
>> object, not from individual path expressions.
> 
> 
> That's sounds like unnecessary complexity to me...

Why?

We want to keep path expressions simple, and make them do things 
determined only by the traversal policy defined for the objects being 
traversed.

Even so, the point of this whole thread and the one on zope3-dev is not 
to discuss what the Zope 3 policy should or should not be. Rather, it is 
that we should be free to choose a calling or not-calling behaviour in a 
particular use of the TALES library.

At present, it seems that the current behaviour is hard-coded into the 
base TALES library, and is not easy to override. This is wrong.
It should be possible and straightforward to override this.

--
Steve Alexander


From chrisw at nipltd.com  Mon Jul 28 21:41:33 2003
From: chrisw at nipltd.com (Chris Withers)
Date: Mon Jul 28 15:41:34 2003
Subject: [ZPT] changing the order of operations
In-Reply-To: <20030728094941.GA382@audible.transient.net>
References: <20030723203512.GH382@audible.transient.net>
	<20030724081104.758.1@wonderland.1059024825.fake>
	<20030724065058.GK382@audible.transient.net>
	<16159.65485.356847.731764@grendel.zope.com>
	<3F24F00E.3040907@nipltd.com>
	<20030728094941.GA382@audible.transient.net>
Message-ID: <3F257C6D.6030307@nipltd.com>

Jamie Heilman wrote:

> If the omit-tag expression evaluates to true, or is empty, the tag is
                                                 ^^^^^^^^^^^
This second bit is extremely bogus, wrong and just plain unpythonic :-(((((

Chris


From chrisw at nipltd.com  Mon Jul 28 21:43:55 2003
From: chrisw at nipltd.com (Chris Withers)
Date: Mon Jul 28 15:43:53 2003
Subject: [ZPT] zope3-dev proposal on changing implicitly calling
In-Reply-To: <3F24F111.5070303@z3u.com>
References: <3EF2EAF7.8010901@cat-box.net>
	<3EF33B30.6030208@nipltd.com>	<3EF33B43.1050303@cat-box.net>	<20030624143850.GA9036@flo.in.nuxeo.com>	<3F13E7BD.3070104@nipltd.com>	<20030716092524.686.1@wonderland.1058338870.fake>
	<3F152866.90509@nuxeo.com> <3F168693.7030007@nipltd.com>
	<3F169812.4060508@cat-box.net> <3F17D401.5050709@nipltd.com>
	<3F17DAB2.5090707@cat-box.net> <3F1EB7FC.9070607@nipltd.com>
	<3F1EB838.1050008@z3u.com> <3F1EF7AC.5080008@nipltd.com>
	<3F1F7F1C.2070204@z3u.com> <3F24F09E.9030104@nipltd.com>
	<3F24F111.5070303@z3u.com>
Message-ID: <3F257CFB.8070103@nipltd.com>

Steve Alexander wrote:
> It will not be fine, because in Zope 3 we want to control these things 
> through policy, not through whether nocall: is present in a TALES 
> expression or not.

Hmm... what makes control through policy (potentially located a long way from 
the code) preferable over explicit control in the actual code?

cheers,

Chris


From chrisw at nipltd.com  Mon Jul 28 21:46:50 2003
From: chrisw at nipltd.com (Chris Withers)
Date: Mon Jul 28 15:46:53 2003
Subject: [ZPT] zope3-dev proposal on changing implicitly calling
In-Reply-To: <3F24F224.8040801@z3u.com>
References: <3EF2EAF7.8010901@cat-box.net>	<3EF33B30.6030208@nipltd.com>	<3EF33B43.1050303@cat-box.net>	<20030624143850.GA9036@flo.in.nuxeo.com>	<3F13E7BD.3070104@nipltd.com>	<20030716092524.686.1@wonderland.1058338870.fake>	<3F152866.90509@nuxeo.com>	<3F168693.7030007@nipltd.com>	<3F169812.4060508@cat-box.net>	<3F17D401.5050709@nipltd.com>	<3F17DAB2.5090707@cat-box.net>	<3F1EB7FC.9070607@nipltd.com>	<3F1EB838.1050008@z3u.com>	<3F1EF7AC.5080008@nipltd.com>	<3F1F7F1C.2070204@z3u.com>
	<16160.9120.455704.142890@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
	<3F20D180.3080502@z3u.com> <3F24F0C8.3050908@nipltd.com>
	<3F24F224.8040801@z3u.com>
Message-ID: <3F257DAA.8050106@nipltd.com>

Steve Alexander wrote:
> We want to keep path expressions simple, and make them do things 
> determined only by the traversal policy defined for the objects being 
> traversed.

I'm afraid I disagree. I'd prefer to see it encouraged to keep the traversal 
policy simple and consistent (which probably means non-configurable: think the 
why-did-they-do-that--because-they-could syndrome of things like Plone) and in 
so doing mean that people who want to use paths don't have to end up 
understanding how the underlying traversal components work because they all work 
differently...

> At present, it seems that the current behaviour is hard-coded into the 
> base TALES library, and is not easy to override. This is wrong.
> It should be possible and straightforward to override this.

I can see your point of view, but I'm not convinced myself yet :-S

cheers,

Chris


From fred at zope.com  Mon Jul 28 16:47:07 2003
From: fred at zope.com (Fred L. Drake, Jr.)
Date: Mon Jul 28 15:47:44 2003
Subject: [ZPT] changing the order of operations
In-Reply-To: <3F257C6D.6030307@nipltd.com>
References: <20030723203512.GH382@audible.transient.net>
	<20030724081104.758.1@wonderland.1059024825.fake>
	<20030724065058.GK382@audible.transient.net>
	<16159.65485.356847.731764@grendel.zope.com>
	<3F24F00E.3040907@nipltd.com>
	<20030728094941.GA382@audible.transient.net>
	<3F257C6D.6030307@nipltd.com>
Message-ID: <16165.32187.197497.377659@grendel.zope.com>


Jamie Heilman wrote:
 > If the omit-tag expression evaluates to true, or is empty, the tag is
                                                  ^^^^^^^^^^^

Chris Withers writes:
 > This second bit is extremely bogus, wrong and just plain unpythonic :-(((((

TAL isn't Python; that's just how the spec is written.  Nor am I
convinced that it's not Pythonic in some sense.  (Think of omitted
keyword arguments in a call; the default behavior is defined in the
target of the call, not in the caller.)


  -Fred

-- 
Fred L. Drake, Jr.  <fred at zope.com>
PythonLabs at Zope Corporation

From steve at z3u.com  Mon Jul 28 23:57:29 2003
From: steve at z3u.com (Steve Alexander)
Date: Mon Jul 28 16:03:11 2003
Subject: [ZPT] zope3-dev proposal on changing implicitly calling
In-Reply-To: <3F257CFB.8070103@nipltd.com>
References: <3EF2EAF7.8010901@cat-box.net>
	<3EF33B30.6030208@nipltd.com>	<3EF33B43.1050303@cat-box.net>	<20030624143850.GA9036@flo.in.nuxeo.com>	<3F13E7BD.3070104@nipltd.com>	<20030716092524.686.1@wonderland.1058338870.fake>
	<3F152866.90509@nuxeo.com> <3F168693.7030007@nipltd.com>
	<3F169812.4060508@cat-box.net> <3F17D401.5050709@nipltd.com>
	<3F17DAB2.5090707@cat-box.net> <3F1EB7FC.9070607@nipltd.com>
	<3F1EB838.1050008@z3u.com> <3F1EF7AC.5080008@nipltd.com>
	<3F1F7F1C.2070204@z3u.com> <3F24F09E.9030104@nipltd.com>
	<3F24F111.5070303@z3u.com> <3F257CFB.8070103@nipltd.com>
Message-ID: <3F258029.9020400@z3u.com>

Chris Withers wrote:
> Steve Alexander wrote:
> 
>> It will not be fine, because in Zope 3 we want to control these things 
>> through policy, not through whether nocall: is present in a TALES 
>> expression or not.
> 
> 
> Hmm... what makes control through policy (potentially located a long way 
> from the code) preferable over explicit control in the actual code?

I'll discuss this on the Zope 3 list, but not on the ZPT list.

For here, it is sufficient to say that for Zope 3 we want to control 
through policy whether something is implicitly called or not.

The problem is not that you can explicitly not call using 'nocall:', but 
that the component is always called if it has a '__call__' method.

--
Steve Alexander


From steve at z3u.com  Mon Jul 28 23:59:19 2003
From: steve at z3u.com (Steve Alexander)
Date: Mon Jul 28 16:05:07 2003
Subject: [ZPT] zope3-dev proposal on changing implicitly calling
In-Reply-To: <3F257DAA.8050106@nipltd.com>
References: <3EF2EAF7.8010901@cat-box.net>	<3EF33B30.6030208@nipltd.com>	<3EF33B43.1050303@cat-box.net>	<20030624143850.GA9036@flo.in.nuxeo.com>	<3F13E7BD.3070104@nipltd.com>	<20030716092524.686.1@wonderland.1058338870.fake>	<3F152866.90509@nuxeo.com>	<3F168693.7030007@nipltd.com>	<3F169812.4060508@cat-box.net>	<3F17D401.5050709@nipltd.com>	<3F17DAB2.5090707@cat-box.net>	<3F1EB7FC.9070607@nipltd.com>	<3F1EB838.1050008@z3u.com>	<3F1EF7AC.5080008@nipltd.com>	<3F1F7F1C.2070204@z3u.com>
	<16160.9120.455704.142890@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
	<3F20D180.3080502@z3u.com> <3F24F0C8.3050908@nipltd.com>
	<3F24F224.8040801@z3u.com> <3F257DAA.8050106@nipltd.com>
Message-ID: <3F258097.2020801@z3u.com>


> I'm afraid I disagree. I'd prefer to see it encouraged to keep the 
> traversal policy simple and consistent (which probably means 
> non-configurable: think the why-did-they-do-that--because-they-could 
> syndrome of things like Plone) and in so doing mean that people who want 
> to use paths don't have to end up understanding how the underlying 
> traversal components work because they all work differently...

I'm calling FUD here. If you want to discuss how Zope 3 should work, we 
need to do it on the zope3-dev mailing list.


>> At present, it seems that the current behaviour is hard-coded into the 
>> base TALES library, and is not easy to override. This is wrong.
>> It should be possible and straightforward to override this.
> 
> I can see your point of view, but I'm not convinced myself yet :-S

--
Steve Alexander


From jamie at audible.transient.net  Mon Jul 28 14:25:11 2003
From: jamie at audible.transient.net (Jamie Heilman)
Date: Mon Jul 28 16:25:59 2003
Subject: [ZPT] changing the order of operations
In-Reply-To: <3F257C6D.6030307@nipltd.com>
References: <20030723203512.GH382@audible.transient.net>
	<20030724081104.758.1@wonderland.1059024825.fake>
	<20030724065058.GK382@audible.transient.net>
	<16159.65485.356847.731764@grendel.zope.com>
	<3F24F00E.3040907@nipltd.com>
	<20030728094941.GA382@audible.transient.net>
	<3F257C6D.6030307@nipltd.com>
Message-ID: <20030728202511.GB382@audible.transient.net>

Chris Withers wrote:
> Jamie Heilman wrote:
> 
> >If the omit-tag expression evaluates to true, or is empty, the tag is
>                                                 ^^^^^^^^^^^
> This second bit is extremely bogus, wrong and just plain unpythonic :-(((((

Meh.  TAL isn't python.  The common case is the quickest to type,
thats a good thing, the only incongruity is that 'default' is false
for tal:omit-tag and true for tal:condition.  While thats odd, its not
particularly debilitating, whereas the speed issues with TAL are.

From fred at zope.com  Mon Jul 28 17:38:10 2003
From: fred at zope.com (Fred L. Drake, Jr.)
Date: Mon Jul 28 16:38:47 2003
Subject: [ZPT] changing the order of operations
In-Reply-To: <20030728202511.GB382@audible.transient.net>
References: <20030723203512.GH382@audible.transient.net>
	<20030724081104.758.1@wonderland.1059024825.fake>
	<20030724065058.GK382@audible.transient.net>
	<16159.65485.356847.731764@grendel.zope.com>
	<3F24F00E.3040907@nipltd.com>
	<20030728094941.GA382@audible.transient.net>
	<3F257C6D.6030307@nipltd.com>
	<20030728202511.GB382@audible.transient.net>
Message-ID: <16165.35250.125917.754753@grendel.zope.com>


Jamie Heilman writes:
 > Meh.  TAL isn't python.  The common case is the quickest to type,
 > thats a good thing, the only incongruity is that 'default' is false
 > for tal:omit-tag and true for tal:condition.

Not sure what you mean here; tal:omit-tag allows "" for true (omit the
tag), while tal:condition requires an expression (at least according
to the spec I'm looking at, which is labelled TAL 1.4).

 > While thats odd, its not particularly debilitating, whereas the
 > speed issues with TAL are.

I don't see any practical reason not to allow tal:omit-tag to inform
processing of tal:attributes.  Technically there's the issue of
tal:attributes expressions which have side effects no longer being
processed, but anyone that does that deserves what they get.  ;-)


  -Fred

-- 
Fred L. Drake, Jr.  <fred at zope.com>
PythonLabs at Zope Corporation

From barry at python.org  Mon Jul 28 21:40:49 2003
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Mon Jul 28 16:40:50 2003
Subject: [ZPT] zope3-dev proposal on changing implicitly calling
In-Reply-To: <3F258029.9020400@z3u.com>
References: <3EF2EAF7.8010901@cat-box.net> <3EF33B30.6030208@nipltd.com>
	<3EF33B43.1050303@cat-box.net>	<20030624143850.GA9036@flo.in.nuxeo.com>
	<3F13E7BD.3070104@nipltd.com>
	<20030716092524.686.1@wonderland.1058338870.fake>
	<3F152866.90509@nuxeo.com> <3F168693.7030007@nipltd.com>
	<3F169812.4060508@cat-box.net> <3F17D401.5050709@nipltd.com>
	<3F17DAB2.5090707@cat-box.net> <3F1EB7FC.9070607@nipltd.com>
	<3F1EB838.1050008@z3u.com> <3F1EF7AC.5080008@nipltd.com>
	<3F1F7F1C.2070204@z3u.com> <3F24F09E.9030104@nipltd.com>
	<3F24F111.5070303@z3u.com> <3F257CFB.8070103@nipltd.com>
	<3F258029.9020400@z3u.com>
Message-ID: <1059424816.32019.98.camel@yyz>

On Mon, 2003-07-28 at 15:57, Steve Alexander wrote:

> I'll discuss this on the Zope 3 list, but not on the ZPT list.
> 
> For here, it is sufficient to say that for Zope 3 we want to control 
> through policy whether something is implicitly called or not.
> 
> The problem is not that you can explicitly not call using 'nocall:', but 
> that the component is always called if it has a '__call__' method.

I've only been able to pay tangential attention to this thread, but...
how does this tie into the ability to call callables in the middle of a
path expression?   I /really/ want that!

-Barry



From jamie at audible.transient.net  Mon Jul 28 14:49:58 2003
From: jamie at audible.transient.net (Jamie Heilman)
Date: Mon Jul 28 16:50:47 2003
Subject: [ZPT] changing the order of operations
In-Reply-To: <16165.35250.125917.754753@grendel.zope.com>
References: <20030723203512.GH382@audible.transient.net>
	<20030724081104.758.1@wonderland.1059024825.fake>
	<20030724065058.GK382@audible.transient.net>
	<16159.65485.356847.731764@grendel.zope.com>
	<3F24F00E.3040907@nipltd.com>
	<20030728094941.GA382@audible.transient.net>
	<3F257C6D.6030307@nipltd.com>
	<20030728202511.GB382@audible.transient.net>
	<16165.35250.125917.754753@grendel.zope.com>
Message-ID: <20030728204958.GC382@audible.transient.net>

Fred L. Drake, Jr. wrote:
> Not sure what you mean here; tal:omit-tag allows "" for true (omit the
> tag), while tal:condition requires an expression (at least according
> to the spec I'm looking at, which is labelled TAL 1.4).

I mean the TALES expression 'default' is false for the former and true
for the latter (according to the docs, I haven't actually tested it).
 
> I don't see any practical reason not to allow tal:omit-tag to inform
> processing of tal:attributes.

Cool, sooo.... wanna give me a hint where I should aim the patch gun?

> Technically there's the issue of tal:attributes expressions which
> have side effects no longer being processed, but anyone that does
> that deserves what they get.  ;-)

I agree.

-- 
Jamie Heilman                   http://audible.transient.net/~jamie/
"You came all this way, without saying squat, and now you're trying
 to tell me a '56 Chevy can beat a '47 Buick in a dead quarter mile?
 I liked you better when you weren't saying squat kid."	-Buddy

From fred at zope.com  Mon Jul 28 18:08:32 2003
From: fred at zope.com (Fred L. Drake, Jr.)
Date: Mon Jul 28 17:09:11 2003
Subject: [ZPT] changing the order of operations
In-Reply-To: <20030728204958.GC382@audible.transient.net>
References: <20030723203512.GH382@audible.transient.net>
	<20030724081104.758.1@wonderland.1059024825.fake>
	<20030724065058.GK382@audible.transient.net>
	<16159.65485.356847.731764@grendel.zope.com>
	<3F24F00E.3040907@nipltd.com>
	<20030728094941.GA382@audible.transient.net>
	<3F257C6D.6030307@nipltd.com>
	<20030728202511.GB382@audible.transient.net>
	<16165.35250.125917.754753@grendel.zope.com>
	<20030728204958.GC382@audible.transient.net>
Message-ID: <16165.37072.496246.787653@grendel.zope.com>


Jamie Heilman writes:
 > Fred L. Drake, Jr. wrote:
 > > Not sure what you mean here; tal:omit-tag allows "" for true (omit the
 > > tag), while tal:condition requires an expression (at least according
 > > to the spec I'm looking at, which is labelled TAL 1.4).
 > 
 > I mean the TALES expression 'default' is false for the former and true
 > for the latter (according to the docs, I haven't actually tested it).

Hmm.  With this document:

<p tal:omit-tag="default">Foo</p>
<p tal:omit-tag="nothing">Bar</p>

The tag is omitted for the first <p> element, which tells me that
default evaluates to true, not false.  Can you point to the precise
location you found this mis-information?

 > Cool, sooo.... wanna give me a hint where I should aim the patch gun?

Start with the method emitStartElement() in the module:

Zope 3:  zope.tal.talgenerator
Zope 2:  TAL.TALGenerator



  -Fred

-- 
Fred L. Drake, Jr.  <fred at zope.com>
PythonLabs at Zope Corporation

From jamie at audible.transient.net  Mon Jul 28 15:10:59 2003
From: jamie at audible.transient.net (Jamie Heilman)
Date: Mon Jul 28 17:11:52 2003
Subject: [ZPT] changing the order of operations
In-Reply-To: <16165.37072.496246.787653@grendel.zope.com>
References: <20030724081104.758.1@wonderland.1059024825.fake>
	<20030724065058.GK382@audible.transient.net>
	<16159.65485.356847.731764@grendel.zope.com>
	<3F24F00E.3040907@nipltd.com>
	<20030728094941.GA382@audible.transient.net>
	<3F257C6D.6030307@nipltd.com>
	<20030728202511.GB382@audible.transient.net>
	<16165.35250.125917.754753@grendel.zope.com>
	<20030728204958.GC382@audible.transient.net>
	<16165.37072.496246.787653@grendel.zope.com>
Message-ID: <20030728211059.GD382@audible.transient.net>

Fred L. Drake, Jr. wrote:
> The tag is omitted for the first <p> element, which tells me that
> default evaluates to true, not false.  Can you point to the precise
> location you found this mis-information?

http://www.zope.org/Documentation/Books/ZopeBook/2_6Edition/AppendixC.stx#3-64
 
>  > Cool, sooo.... wanna give me a hint where I should aim the patch gun?
> 
> Start with the method emitStartElement() in the module:
> 
> Zope 3:  zope.tal.talgenerator
> Zope 2:  TAL.TALGenerator

OK, see ya in a few months! <g>

-- 
Jamie Heilman                   http://audible.transient.net/~jamie/
"You came all this way, without saying squat, and now you're trying
 to tell me a '56 Chevy can beat a '47 Buick in a dead quarter mile?
 I liked you better when you weren't saying squat kid."	-Buddy

From fred at zope.com  Mon Jul 28 18:37:23 2003
From: fred at zope.com (Fred L. Drake, Jr.)
Date: Mon Jul 28 17:38:02 2003
Subject: [ZPT] changing the order of operations
In-Reply-To: <20030728211059.GD382@audible.transient.net>
References: <20030724081104.758.1@wonderland.1059024825.fake>
	<20030724065058.GK382@audible.transient.net>
	<16159.65485.356847.731764@grendel.zope.com>
	<3F24F00E.3040907@nipltd.com>
	<20030728094941.GA382@audible.transient.net>
	<3F257C6D.6030307@nipltd.com>
	<20030728202511.GB382@audible.transient.net>
	<16165.35250.125917.754753@grendel.zope.com>
	<20030728204958.GC382@audible.transient.net>
	<16165.37072.496246.787653@grendel.zope.com>
	<20030728211059.GD382@audible.transient.net>
Message-ID: <16165.38803.932318.735716@grendel.zope.com>


Jamie Heilman writes:
 > Fred L. Drake, Jr. wrote:
 > > The tag is omitted for the first <p> element, which tells me that
 > > default evaluates to true, not false.  Can you point to the precise
 > > location you found this mis-information?
 > 
 > http://www.zope.org/Documentation/Books/ZopeBook/2_6Edition/AppendixC.stx#3-64

Ugh; no wonder I didn't see it.  I still use the old ZPT wiki.

 > OK, see ya in a few months! <g>

Hehe.  I actually don't think it'll be hard to make some adjustments.
We'll have to do a new version of the specification, but that's not
too hard.  ;-)


  -Fred

-- 
Fred L. Drake, Jr.  <fred at zope.com>
PythonLabs at Zope Corporation

From steve at z3u.com  Tue Jul 29 10:24:55 2003
From: steve at z3u.com (Steve Alexander)
Date: Tue Jul 29 02:30:46 2003
Subject: [ZPT] zope3-dev proposal on changing implicitly calling
In-Reply-To: <1059424816.32019.98.camel@yyz>
References: <3EF2EAF7.8010901@cat-box.net> <3EF33B30.6030208@nipltd.com>	
	<3EF33B43.1050303@cat-box.net>	<20030624143850.GA9036@flo.in.nuxeo.com>	
	<3F13E7BD.3070104@nipltd.com>	
	<20030716092524.686.1@wonderland.1058338870.fake>	
	<3F152866.90509@nuxeo.com> <3F168693.7030007@nipltd.com>	
	<3F169812.4060508@cat-box.net> <3F17D401.5050709@nipltd.com>	
	<3F17DAB2.5090707@cat-box.net> <3F1EB7FC.9070607@nipltd.com>	
	<3F1EB838.1050008@z3u.com> <3F1EF7AC.5080008@nipltd.com>	
	<3F1F7F1C.2070204@z3u.com> <3F24F09E.9030104@nipltd.com>	
	<3F24F111.5070303@z3u.com> <3F257CFB.8070103@nipltd.com>	
	<3F258029.9020400@z3u.com> <1059424816.32019.98.camel@yyz>
Message-ID: <3F261337.3020601@z3u.com>

Barry Warsaw wrote:
> On Mon, 2003-07-28 at 15:57, Steve Alexander wrote:
> 
> 
>>I'll discuss this on the Zope 3 list, but not on the ZPT list.
>>
>>For here, it is sufficient to say that for Zope 3 we want to control 
>>through policy whether something is implicitly called or not.
>>
>>The problem is not that you can explicitly not call using 'nocall:', but 
>>that the component is always called if it has a '__call__' method.
> 
> 
> I've only been able to pay tangential attention to this thread, but...
> how does this tie into the ability to call callables in the middle of a
> path expression?   I /really/ want that!

We do that already in Zope 3. In Zope 3, Zope 3's traversal machinery 
gets used to traverse path expressions. It is the responsibility for the 
traversal adapter for a particular object to say how to traverse it, and 
whether to call it.

The only problem comes with the last object from the path. TALES makes 
the decision of whether to call or not, rather than Zope 3. For Zope 3, 
this is inconsistent.

--
Steve Alexander



From barry at python.org  Tue Jul 29 13:25:19 2003
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Tue Jul 29 08:25:20 2003
Subject: [ZPT] zope3-dev proposal on changing implicitly calling
In-Reply-To: <3F261337.3020601@z3u.com>
References: <3EF2EAF7.8010901@cat-box.net> <3EF33B30.6030208@nipltd.com>
	<3EF33B43.1050303@cat-box.net>	<20030624143850.GA9036@flo.in.nuxeo.com>
	<3F13E7BD.3070104@nipltd.com>
	<20030716092524.686.1@wonderland.1058338870.fake>
	<3F152866.90509@nuxeo.com> <3F168693.7030007@nipltd.com>
	<3F169812.4060508@cat-box.net> <3F17D401.5050709@nipltd.com>
	<3F17DAB2.5090707@cat-box.net> <3F1EB7FC.9070607@nipltd.com>
	<3F1EB838.1050008@z3u.com> <3F1EF7AC.5080008@nipltd.com>
	<3F1F7F1C.2070204@z3u.com> <3F24F09E.9030104@nipltd.com>
	<3F24F111.5070303@z3u.com> <3F257CFB.8070103@nipltd.com>
	<3F258029.9020400@z3u.com> <1059424816.32019.98.camel@yyz>
	<3F261337.3020601@z3u.com>
Message-ID: <1059481486.28413.47.camel@anthem>

On Tue, 2003-07-29 at 02:24, Steve Alexander wrote:

> > I've only been able to pay tangential attention to this thread, but...
> > how does this tie into the ability to call callables in the middle of a
> > path expression?   I /really/ want that!
> 
> We do that already in Zope 3. In Zope 3, Zope 3's traversal machinery 
> gets used to traverse path expressions. It is the responsibility for the 
> traversal adapter for a particular object to say how to traverse it, and 
> whether to call it.
> 
> The only problem comes with the last object from the path. TALES makes 
> the decision of whether to call or not, rather than Zope 3. For Zope 3, 
> this is inconsistent.

So in my particular application, which isn't Zope3 based, but does use
all of tal/tales/pagetemplates from Zope3, I'd need to write a new
traverser to get the behavior I want...?

-Barry



From steve at z3u.com  Tue Jul 29 17:35:09 2003
From: steve at z3u.com (Steve Alexander)
Date: Tue Jul 29 09:41:03 2003
Subject: [ZPT] zope3-dev proposal on changing implicitly calling
In-Reply-To: <1059481486.28413.47.camel@anthem>
References: <3EF2EAF7.8010901@cat-box.net> <3EF33B30.6030208@nipltd.com>	
	<3EF33B43.1050303@cat-box.net>	<20030624143850.GA9036@flo.in.nuxeo.com>	
	<3F13E7BD.3070104@nipltd.com>	
	<20030716092524.686.1@wonderland.1058338870.fake>	
	<3F152866.90509@nuxeo.com> <3F168693.7030007@nipltd.com>	
	<3F169812.4060508@cat-box.net> <3F17D401.5050709@nipltd.com>	
	<3F17DAB2.5090707@cat-box.net> <3F1EB7FC.9070607@nipltd.com>	
	<3F1EB838.1050008@z3u.com> <3F1EF7AC.5080008@nipltd.com>	
	<3F1F7F1C.2070204@z3u.com> <3F24F09E.9030104@nipltd.com>	
	<3F24F111.5070303@z3u.com> <3F257CFB.8070103@nipltd.com>	
	<3F258029.9020400@z3u.com> <1059424816.32019.98.camel@yyz>	
	<3F261337.3020601@z3u.com> <1059481486.28413.47.camel@anthem>
Message-ID: <3F26780D.2080000@z3u.com>


> So in my particular application, which isn't Zope3 based, but does use
> all of tal/tales/pagetemplates from Zope3, I'd need to write a new
> traverser to get the behavior I want...?

I guess you'd want to do your own version of this:

   Zope3/src/zope/app/pagetemplate/engine.py

--
Steve Alexander


From chrisw at nipltd.com  Tue Jul 29 18:46:37 2003
From: chrisw at nipltd.com (Chris Withers)
Date: Tue Jul 29 12:46:42 2003
Subject: [ZPT] Definitive Doc Source
In-Reply-To: <16165.38803.932318.735716@grendel.zope.com>
References: <20030724081104.758.1@wonderland.1059024825.fake>	<20030724065058.GK382@audible.transient.net>	<16159.65485.356847.731764@grendel.zope.com>	<3F24F00E.3040907@nipltd.com>	<20030728094941.GA382@audible.transient.net>	<3F257C6D.6030307@nipltd.com>	<20030728202511.GB382@audible.transient.net>	<16165.35250.125917.754753@grendel.zope.com>	<20030728204958.GC382@audible.transient.net>	<16165.37072.496246.787653@grendel.zope.com>	<20030728211059.GD382@audible.transient.net>
	<16165.38803.932318.735716@grendel.zope.com>
Message-ID: <3F26A4ED.8020401@nipltd.com>

Fred L. Drake, Jr. wrote:

> Jamie Heilman writes:
>  > Fred L. Drake, Jr. wrote:
>  > > The tag is omitted for the first <p> element, which tells me that
>  > > default evaluates to true, not false.  Can you point to the precise
>  > > location you found this mis-information?
>  > 
>  > http://www.zope.org/Documentation/Books/ZopeBook/2_6Edition/AppendixC.stx#3-64
> 
> Ugh; no wonder I didn't see it.  I still use the old ZPT wiki.

Where is the definitive documentation for ZPT nowadays?

cheers,

Chris


From evan at 4-am.com  Tue Jul 29 12:54:31 2003
From: evan at 4-am.com (Evan Simpson)
Date: Tue Jul 29 12:59:11 2003
Subject: [ZPT] Definitive Doc Source
In-Reply-To: <3F26A4ED.8020401@nipltd.com>
References: <20030724081104.758.1@wonderland.1059024825.fake>	<20030724065058.GK382@audible.transient.net>	<16159.65485.356847.731764@grendel.zope.com>	<3F24F00E.3040907@nipltd.com>	<20030728094941.GA382@audible.transient.net>	<3F257C6D.6030307@nipltd.com>	<20030728202511.GB382@audible.transient.net>	<16165.35250.125917.754753@grendel.zope.com>	<20030728204958.GC382@audible.transient.net>	<16165.37072.496246.787653@grendel.zope.com>	<20030728211059.GD382@audible.transient.net>	<16165.38803.932318.735716@grendel.zope.com>
	<3F26A4ED.8020401@nipltd.com>
Message-ID: <3F26A6C7.9080901@4-am.com>

Chris Withers wrote:
> Fred L. Drake, Jr. wrote:
>> http://www.zope.org/Documentation/Books/ZopeBook/2_6Edition/AppendixC.stx#3-64 
> 
> Where is the definitive documentation for ZPT nowadays?

It's the 2.6 edition, AFAIK.  That's where I've been putting my doc 
changes.  I'm going to fix this doc bug right now.

Cheers,

Evan @ 4-am


From jamie at audible.transient.net  Tue Jul 29 17:43:16 2003
From: jamie at audible.transient.net (Jamie Heilman)
Date: Tue Jul 29 19:44:05 2003
Subject: [ZPT] changing the order of operations
In-Reply-To: <16165.38803.932318.735716@grendel.zope.com>
References: <20030728211059.GD382@audible.transient.net>
	<16165.38803.932318.735716@grendel.zope.com>
Message-ID: <20030729234316.GI382@audible.transient.net>

So here's a first cut, it may be naive still, but it reflects my
current direction, please let me know if you see any problems with it.

Given the markup:
<b tal:omit-tag=""
   tal:attributes="x here/trigger"><i
   tal:content="here/trigger">y</i></b>

We currently construct a TAL listing of:
('version', '1.4'),
('mode', 'html'),
('setSourceFile', '/taltest'),
('setPosition', (1, 0)),
('beginScope', {'tal:omit-tag': '', 'tal:attributes': 'x here/trigger'}),
('optTag', ('b', '', None, 0,
  [('startTag', ('b', [
    ('tal:omit-tag', '', 'tal'),
    ('tal:attributes', 'x here/trigger', 'tal'),
    ('x', None, 'insert', standard:'here/trigger', 0, None)]))],
  [('setPosition', (2, 19)),
   ('beginScope', {'tal:content': 'here/trigger'}),
   ('startTag', ('i', [('tal:content', 'here/trigger', 'tal')])),
   ('insertText', (standard:'here/trigger', [('rawtextOffset', ('y', 1))])),
   ('endScope', ()),
   ('rawtextOffset', ('</i>', 4))]
)),
('endScope', ())

Given that tal:omit-tag="" is a special case we can optimize that in
the generator, to completely ignore attributes and instead generate:
('version', '1.4'),
('mode', 'html'),
('setSourceFile', '/taltest'),
('setPosition', (1, 0)),
('beginScope', {'tal:omit-tag': '', 'tal:attributes': 'x here/trigger'}),
('optTag', ('b', '', None, 0,
  [('startTag', ('b', [
    ('tal:omit-tag', '', 'tal'),
    ('tal:attributes', 'x here/trigger', 'tal')]))],
  [('setPosition', (2, 35)),
   ('beginScope', {'tal:content': 'here/trigger'}),
   ('startTag', ('i', [('tal:content', 'here/trigger', 'tal')])),
   ('insertText', (standard:'here/trigger', [('rawtextOffset', ('y', 1))])),
   ('endScope', ()),
   ('rawtextOffset', ('</i>', 4))]
)),
('endScope', ())

Non-empty omit-tag expressions are defered till run-time.  Technically
its probably not impossible to detect other cases where the
optimization could be done in the TAL generated ("default" would be
easy to spot) but I'm thinking its probably not worth it just because
TALES is a moving target and coupling TAL and TALES too tightly seems
sorta dirty.  Anyway, the omit-tag optimizations also apply to
<tal:foo> tags which I hadn't really thought about attacking, but
they're all sort of related, so I figured why not.  Theres the issue
of i18n attributes as well, not having ever used i18n for anything I
don't really know how its used, but they seem to be deserving of the
same short-circuiting when combined with tal-omit, so I haven't made
any effort to prevent that from happening.  As for the runtime
short-circuiting I'm not particularly sold on my current technique.  I
only made the distinction in attrAction_tal which I'm not sure is the
right thing to do, and I kinda just hand off the task of actually
ignoring the attributes to attrAction with the assumption their action
will be set to 'insert' ... that may not be a valid assumption--I know
a lot more about how TAL works than I ever really wanted to now, but
I'm pretty sure I still know nowhere near what I should to be making
changes like this.

Anyway, patch is attached, I'd love some feedback.

-- 
Jamie Heilman                   http://audible.transient.net/~jamie/
"I was in love once -- a Sinclair ZX-81.  People said, "No, Holly, she's 
 not for you." She was cheap, she was stupid and she wouldn't load 
 -- well, not for me, anyway."				-Holly
-------------- next part --------------
--- lib/python/TAL/TALGenerator.py	25 Jul 2003 18:54:36 -0000      1.65
+++ taste/the/fun/TALGenerator.py	29 Jul 2003 23:36:24 -0000
@@ -650,7 +650,7 @@
         if optTag:
             todo["optional tag"] = omitTag, TALtag
             self.pushProgram()
-        if attrsubst or i18nattrs:
+        if not (TALtag or omitTag == '') and (attrsubst or i18nattrs):
             if attrsubst:
                 repldict = TALDefs.parseAttributeReplacements(attrsubst,
                                                               self.xml)
--- lib/python/TAL/TALInterpreter.py	Mon Apr  7 10:38:05 2003
+++ taste/the/fun/TALInterpreter.py	Tue Jul 29 15:35:51 2003
@@ -133,6 +133,7 @@
         if showtal == -1:
             showtal = (not tal)
         self.showtal = showtal
+        self.skipattrs = 0
         self.strictinsert = strictinsert
         self.stackLimit = stackLimit
         self.html = 0
@@ -345,7 +349,7 @@
         return 1, name, value
 
     def attrAction_tal(self, item):
-        if item[2] in ('metal', 'tal', 'xmlns', 'i18n'):
+        if self.skipattrs or item[2] in ('metal', 'tal', 'xmlns', 'i18n'):
             return self.attrAction(item)
         name, value, action = item[:3]
         ok = 1
@@ -384,7 +388,9 @@
         state = self.saveState()
         self.stream = stream = self.StringIO()
         self._stream_write = stream.write
+        self.skipattrs = 1
         self.interpret(start)
+        self.skipattrs = 0
         self.restoreOutputState(state)
         self.interpret(program)
 
From chrisw at nipltd.com  Thu Jul 31 13:21:27 2003
From: chrisw at nipltd.com (Chris Withers)
Date: Thu Jul 31 07:19:30 2003
Subject: [ZPT] Definitive Doc Source
References: <20030724081104.758.1@wonderland.1059024825.fake>	<20030724065058.GK382@audible.transient.net>	<16159.65485.356847.731764@grendel.zope.com>	<3F24F00E.3040907@nipltd.com>	<20030728094941.GA382@audible.transient.net>	<3F257C6D.6030307@nipltd.com>	<20030728202511.GB382@audible.transient.net>	<16165.35250.125917.754753@grendel.zope.com>	<20030728204958.GC382@audible.transient.net>	<16165.37072.496246.787653@grendel.zope.com>	<20030728211059.GD382@audible.transient.net>	<16165.38803.932318.735716@grendel.zope.com>
	<3F26A4ED.8020401@nipltd.com> <3F26A6C7.9080901@4-am.com>
Message-ID: <3F28FBB7.5040800@nipltd.com>

Evan Simpson wrote:
> Chris Withers wrote:
> 
>> Fred L. Drake, Jr. wrote:
>>
>>> http://www.zope.org/Documentation/Books/ZopeBook/2_6Edition/AppendixC.stx#3-64 
>>
>>
>> Where is the definitive documentation for ZPT nowadays?
> 
> It's the 2.6 edition, AFAIK.  That's where I've been putting my doc 
> changes.  I'm going to fix this doc bug right now.

Where is the 2.6 edition linked from?

Can the other sources of documentation be altered so they point out where the 
definitive source of documentation is?

How do the language specs in the Wiki relate to all of this?

cheers,

Chris


From fergal at esatclear.ie  Thu Jul 31 17:45:14 2003
From: fergal at esatclear.ie (Fergal Daly)
Date: Thu Jul 31 11:45:52 2003
Subject: [ZPT] TAL's lack of an else...
Message-ID: <200307311645.14069.fergal@esatclear.ie>

Hi,
	I'm sure this must have been done to death somewhere already but I can't find 
much on it at all. Is there a plan to add if/elsif/else type stuff to TAL? I 
know XML is not well suited to this kind of thing, which makes it tricky, but 
not having an else is a pretty big deficiency. I know I can do

<tag tal:condition="blah">
	something
</tag>
<tag tal:condition="not:blah">
	something else
</tag>

but that involves evaluating twice and what if blah changes inside the if? 
There's also the solution of using a temporary variable but that's very 
cumbersome.

I guess it would have to look something like

<tag tal:condition="blah">
	something
	<tag tal:else>
		something else
	</tag>
</tag>

or

<tag tal:condition="blah1">
	something
</tag>
<tag tal:else>
	something else
</tag>

Are either of these on the cards or does someone have a really clever idea 
brewing?

F


From charlie at begeistert.org  Thu Jul 31 19:06:45 2003
From: charlie at begeistert.org (Charlie Clark)
Date: Thu Jul 31 12:06:46 2003
Subject: [ZPT] TAL's lack of an else...
In-Reply-To: <200307311645.14069.fergal@esatclear.ie>
References: <200307311645.14069.fergal@esatclear.ie>
Message-ID: <20030731180645.9079.14@wonderland.1059642690.fake>


On 2003-07-31 at 17:45:14 [+0200], Fergal Daly wrote:
> Hi,
>     I'm sure this must have been done to death somewhere already but I 
>     can't find 
> much on it at all. Is there a plan to add if/elsif/else type stuff to 
> TAL? I know XML is not well suited to this kind of thing, which makes it 
> tricky, but not having an else is a pretty big deficiency.

XML isn't supposed to be fast to execute, just relatively simple to 
maintain.

I find that anything that goes beyond a tal:condition or python: test() is 
probably over-complex for ZPT and usually time for a PythonScript or an 
external method and I really like being encouraged down that path.

Charlie

From fdaly at sift.co.uk  Thu Jul 31 18:44:56 2003
From: fdaly at sift.co.uk (Fergal Daly)
Date: Thu Jul 31 12:45:32 2003
Subject: [ZPT] TAL's lack of an else...
In-Reply-To: <20030731180645.9079.14@wonderland.1059642690.fake>
References: <200307311645.14069.fergal@esatclear.ie>
	<20030731180645.9079.14@wonderland.1059642690.fake>
Message-ID: <200307311744.56598.fdaly@sift.co.uk>

On Thursday 31 July 2003 17:06, Charlie Clark wrote:
> XML isn't supposed to be fast to execute, just relatively simple to
> maintain.

Speed doesn't really come into it but easy to maintain is very important.

> I find that anything that goes beyond a tal:condition or python: test() is
> probably over-complex for ZPT and usually time for a PythonScript or an
> external method and I really like being encouraged down that path.

I agree, I like the fact that TAL forces you to use it as a template language. 
Anyone who tries to use TAL as a general programming language is in for pain 
and rightly so. However if-else is fairly fundamental, the last time I used a 
language without an else was assembler and Commodore 64 BASIC. It's also 
available in probably every other template system out there.

I can see how PythonScript or a method will solve the problem but then you 
lose all the advantages of using TAL. Take the hypothetical example

<tag tal:if="user/isLoggedIn">
	welcome back <tag tal:replace="user/name"/>
</tag>
<tag tal:else>
	please log in
</tag>

Doing this with a method would look like

<tag tal:replace="structure user/welcomemessage"/>

But now a big chunk of our template is hidden away in a method call, which 
means the programmer has more code to maintain and the designer has a part of 
his template that doesn't show up in his editor. TAL is the best language 
I've seen for avoiding this sort of thing, it shouldn't be necessary to 
introduce it just to do an "else".

I don't think you can argue that adding "else" to TAL is expanding the 
language beyond what it should be and at a guess, I'd say that most people on 
this list have templates where they have worked around the lack of an else.

I'm trying to push TAL (well actually Petal - the Perl port) in my new job. 
They are using their own home-grown template language which is nowhere near 
as good as TAL not having an else makes it quite a bit more difficult to 
sell,

F



From evan at 4-am.com  Thu Jul 31 13:30:58 2003
From: evan at 4-am.com (Evan Simpson)
Date: Thu Jul 31 13:31:10 2003
Subject: [ZPT] Re: Definitive Doc Source
In-Reply-To: <3F28FBB7.5040800@nipltd.com>
References: <20030724081104.758.1@wonderland.1059024825.fake>	<20030724065058.GK382@audible.transient.net>	<16159.65485.356847.731764@grendel.zope.com>	<3F24F00E.3040907@nipltd.com>	<20030728094941.GA382@audible.transient.net>	<3F257C6D.6030307@nipltd.com>	<20030728202511.GB382@audible.transient.net>	<16165.35250.125917.754753@grendel.zope.com>	<20030728204958.GC382@audible.transient.net>	<16165.37072.496246.787653@grendel.zope.com>	<20030728211059.GD382@audible.transient.net>	<16165.38803.932318.735716@grendel.zope.com>	<3F26A4ED.8020401@nipltd.com>
	<3F26A6C7.9080901@4-am.com> <3F28FBB7.5040800@nipltd.com>
Message-ID: <3F295252.2060704@4-am.com>

Chris Withers wrote:
> Where is the 2.6 edition linked from?
> 
> Can the other sources of documentation be altered so they point out 
> where the definitive source of documentation is?
> 
> How do the language specs in the Wiki relate to all of this?

You're just full of questions lately, aren't you? ;-)

The 2.6 edition is linked from the Zope Book page at 
http://www.zope.org/Documentation/Books/ZopeBook, and Appendix C 
supercedes the the language specs in the Wiki.

The front page of the Wiki points to the Zope Book -- what other sources 
did you have in mind?

Cheers,

Evan @ 4-am


From evan at 4-am.com  Thu Jul 31 13:29:45 2003
From: evan at 4-am.com (Evan Simpson)
Date: Thu Jul 31 13:31:53 2003
Subject: [ZPT] Re: TAL's lack of an else...
In-Reply-To: <200307311645.14069.fergal@esatclear.ie>
References: <200307311645.14069.fergal@esatclear.ie>
Message-ID: <3F295209.5080803@4-am.com>

Fergal Daly wrote:
> Are either of these on the cards or does someone have a really clever idea 
> brewing?

A while back, I proposed tal:condition-group, which is much more 
powerful and well-defined than "else", but harder to understand.  Your 
example would be written:

<tag tal:condition-group="blah">
   <tag tal:condition="blah here/someexpensivetest">
     something
   </tag>
   <tag tal:condition="blah default">
     something else
   </tag>
</tag>

It extends to multi-way tests, and has several subtle features.  See:

http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zpt/2003-April/004509.html

Cheers,

Evan @ 4-am