[Zope3-dev] ZopeTop (the new Zope3 replacement for ZMI)

[Lalo Martins]

Ok, development of the ZopeTop is officially starting.

One thing we discussed on #zope is the folder tree and the use of frames.

20:09 <@kosh> I would like the frame interface to go away
20:09 <@runyaga> yes... there hsould be no frame interface in Zope3
20:09 <@kosh> frames are deprecated and are no longer in newer version of the xhtml spec
20:09 <@kosh> and all of the browser manufacturers are backing that idea
20:10 <@kosh> frames are a pain from a browser perspective and from a web app perspective
20:10 <@ftmpsh> agreed
20:10 <@kosh> they mainly make things easy for newbies
20:10 < lalo> but having a folder tree is good
20:10 < lalo> no?
20:11 <@kosh> having a folder tree is fine however it should not be in a frame
20:11 <@kosh> make the page lighter and just reload the entire page
20:13 < MikeFair> A script based folder tree? or massive numbers of page reloads?
20:13 < lalo> dunno
20:13 < MikeFair> (and make sure you save that script before you navigate that tree)
20:13 < lalo> page reloads can be a problem
20:13 < lalo> specially if you're viewing a form
20:14 < MikeFair> Or the result page of a form
20:15 < lalo> interestingly, I observed that only "power users" use the folder tree in Windows Explorer and Mac Finder
20:15 < lalo> perhaps it is feasible to go the emacs powerbar way and have the folder tree in a different window
20:15 <@kosh> I very rarely use the tree under any os or interface
20:15 <@kosh> I would rather just type in where I want to go
20:16 < lalo> (power users generally like to have lots of open windows)
20:16 <@kosh> its structure is in my head not on the filesystem :)
20:16 < lalo> and this would make it optional
20:17 <@kosh> well how would you do that without frames or scripts
20:17 < lalo> when using mozilla we could rely on xuf, rdf and the sidebar
20:17 < MikeFair> lalo: I definitely agree that most people don't like the folder interface... it's kinda weird that it consfuses ppl to think about a "filesystem" and a program that manages it
20:17 <@kosh> the entire target system doesn not exist in xhtml 1.1
20:17 < lalo> kosh: separate window, not frame
20:17 < lalo> a real window
20:17  * kosh is also not going to use mozilla for devel
20:18 < lalo> in my experience, at least 50% of the times I click on the tree I either open a new window, or later wish I had

So:

I'm pretty sure frames are bad.

Srichter suggests we could make them an option. (Defaulting to off?)

You could also have a script (ecmascript, javascript) based
folder tree - that would be even better, if you could
right-click on an item and select specific views.

In the first stages, ZopeTop just won't have a folder tree. But
I'd like to have this discussion here and collect ideas for
adding them later.

[]s,
                                               |alo
                                               +----
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